gday all, am midway through a mini build with my old boy and am a little concerned with his choice of wheel shaft. has anyone ever used threadbar?
i'm worried it might grab or damage the wheel bearings
cheers in advance
The bar should be ok- its been used by other fellas before.
I reckon that if you tack one nut (on the side closest to the existing weld) so it cant move, and then fit the wheel on the shaft, put the other nut on then drill it all the way through the threaded bar to suit a clip it will be fine.
Or you could use a nylock nut instead of drilling the nut and threaded bar- as long as you have enough length on the threaded rod.
Make sure the outer race of the bearing doesnt rub on the nuts- if it does you may need to fit a smaller outside diameter washer that only bears on the inner race.
stephen
p.s. looking good so far 
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where abouts in W.A. are you?
Planning on trimming some weight at some stage
I might have to make the sails 5.5m
ahhhhh beauty. i should trust him as he's made them before (25 years ago) cheers stephen.
nylocks are definately the order of the day coupled with pins for double measure.
there are washers on the back and will be on the front thanks again.
i'm in mandurah the old boys in singelton
hahaa paul he IS a boily. i'm only 70kg and he aint to much more so hopefully the extra weight will keep us on three wheels. he's keen to make another so hopefully we'll get out with two if all goes well
Stud bar is high tensile so I don't think it will let you down.
Looking at that coarse thread (I'm guessing 1" Whitworth?) You would have to hit a bus to break it.
You can cut the nuts in half to save weight and face the cut side away from the bearings so they have a flat face to mate to. Without spacers between the bearings don't do them up tight though.
The yacht looks fantastic so far (and even matches the pavers).
Well done!!!
The "rusty iron" paintwork on grlynch in QLD yacht, looked great, so maybe this one's features brickwork.
You will definatley need two yachts now you have been bitten by the building bug.
Hey zeph, Looks great.
Definately don't do the nuts up tight. My two cents, i would weld the inside nut and use a lock nut on the outside. Might have to cut them down though as there does not appear to be a lot of thread.
I'm not convinced a Nyloc nut won't undo if the bearing is too loose on the shaft and spins. Typically threadded rod is smaller than the nominal size.
Also has anyone had problems with the threadded rod breaking at the weld. In my experience, (with other non land yacht related projects) is the heat from the weld can weaken hight tensile steels?
"Brick paintwork might make it heavier
......But I'd do it anyway!)
Hi, it may be strong enough but could fatigue at the threads. ie last a while then one day "snap".
Hi Lz,
I would tend to agree with the Nut Splitting idea and keeping the original surface out to the bearing. I am using Large washers that cover the bearing side completely with little interference at all and a gentle tap can cure that if it is a problem. I find that the Washer tends help keep sand out of the bearing as it has to travel down into the space between seal and washer. The metal fatigue thing--- well on that "I'd suck it and see" That is one of those things may or may not happen and given that there isn't a lot of weight involved I would think "Not" is the answer,----------That is unless you hit a bus and then you would be more concerned with the sudden stop, more so than the front axle busting. Nylok are good but do tend to fail under continuous removal and re-fitting. I would tend to cut about .25" into one side of the outer nut with the angle gringer 3 ways and "Castellate " it Then fir the nut and wheel in place doing it up until firm contact is made. At this point you back the nut off slightly so the wheel spins freely and center pop the axle through one of the Castellated cuts and drill it to suit a 1/8" Split Pin. But no matter the method used machinery of any description requires Maintenance and inspection. Wheels locking up or falling off at speed do tend to have a nasty effect.
Ron
Lz,
A couple of pic's
The third image depicts a trial method of sand exclusion,heavy leather washers, the iner one spins freely.
The dirt smacks of lack of maintenance and I must have forgotten to put the pin back after working on the wheel.. Not a Good Look.
Ron
Over the years i have tried several ways of wheel retention...
1. Nylock nuts work well but replace each year as they do wear out. Need a large spanner /wrench to adjust and heavy axle.
2. Castle nuts work well but the split pins are sharp and can rip your legs while rigging the yacht and be dangerous in racing in a collision. People often use nails just to add a sharp point to rip skin. Need several tools to remove the wheel, heavy axle.
If you use either of the above 2 variations often maintenance gets neglected as the wheels are at times a pain to remove.
3. R or D pins work well but have sharp points to cause injury. Very simple to remove.
4. Lynch pins (my favorite) simple easy to remove the wheel with NO tools no sharp pints to rip skin and they cost less than $2.
Carry a spare wheel in the car and change it faster than a pit stop at Bathurst (or Daytona for the people in the USA).
I have at times put a knobbly on one side and a smooth tyre on the other to cope with a muddy seaweed beach on 1 tack and firm sand on the other.
I actually try to have about 1-2mm side ways slop on the wheel to stop seaweed or sand jambing the bearing. Simple, effective and light weight.
Castellated nuts!!!!! wrong century plus 25 years!!!!!!!
. you will be struggling to TIGHTEN a 20mm or 25mm nyloc so dont worru about it coming loose
I would machine off half the metal thread at least as the nylon will cut in and hold with 20 and 25 mm.
have a think about that machine you sailed at lefroy
if you must use lynch pins make sure they are flat on one side .
if using a nut , make sure you make a spacer to fit between the bearings.
what kind of bearings are you using?
I reckon you got her right with that set up Gizmo.
I will be getting rid of my 1" threaded rod axles and converting to the same set up as you depicted. The large diameter washers both sides of the bearings are good grit guards.
However I will be using heavy wall ( about 2.5 to 3 mm) stainless tube axle that I found in our local stainless supply shop that is a really neat sliding fit inside those deep groove bearings. It is just a tiny lick too big in diameter for the precision sealed bearings and I don't think emery tape would quite take enough off to make them fit.
Considering that sealed precision bearings still get grit in them fairly quickly, cost about $20 each as opposed to deep groove bearings at about $4 each, I do not think it is worth the expense of machining a couple of thou' off the axle tube.
I am sure the conversion will take a kilo off the weight of the yacht.
6005-2rs of the top off my head. they are the bog standards that come with the westmix wheels. don't worry they don't have the lumps of lead attached to the rim.
whilst they aren't the latest or greatest, they are readily available/cheap ($38) and tax deductable
i would have been happy with pins on tube shafts paul but ohh well, will do for the spacers cheers
Gawdalmighty Gizmo! You would really have had something to cry about back in the days of the old Egyptian or Roman Chariots, what with their Scythes and all
. What do you think that great hunk of pipe hanging outside the Wheel would do to someones legs?? Hum?
Anyway I don't think I'd like to be hit by any part of a Land Yacht. The Axles right above the Shins at 60kmh would certainly do some damage.[}:)]
Ron
The lynch pin looks very neat and tidy, but I agree with Landyacht they usually have a small shoulder on the back of the head that doesn't let them sit flat. This would need correcting to keep the washer flat.
The standard "setup" is 2 times the diameter of the lynch pin of parallel shaft sticking out past the hole, or they are not safe. This doesn't include the chamfer on the end of the shaft.
When we have Ag College audits, by Work Safe, the inspector goes around and make sure all these pins (mainly on 3 point linkage attachments on tractors) comply.
If they don't pass. I have to cut the offending shaft off then and there, with the cordless angle grinder.
In sailing set up it would have a plastic cover over the end of the tube, this then complies with the FISLY rule "SF8. Any sharp edges on the yacht must be made safe." unlike many of the other variations.
Hello to all the land yachting people, Easyroll is the WA distributor for Fallshaw if you are after the plastic 400x8 complete wheel you guys can have them for $36.00 plus GST. We have a warehouse and show room at unit 4 16-18 kewdale rd welshpool. plus all the bearings and a huge range of pneumatics.
our web www.easyrollmh.com.au
Gee that sounds like a very nice price!!!!
May I ask what is the unit price of the complete wheel and tyre KNO PW A10 (i think it is), 2 x 6004 high speed bearings and 2 of the SP 6004 adapters to suit?
Great to have a WA outlet and thanks for dropping by and spreading the word.
Gizmo, I knew there would be a reason for that much extra tube. Nice solution.
If I was to go to a championship and someone turned up with a wheel set up like this I would be lodging a protest on "Safety reasons" even before the yacht was off the trailer. Easier to get rid of the competition before you even get to the track..... I've done it before and I'd do it again....
There is NO reason for some one to turn up to an event with an unsafe yacht.
Before anyone calls me a spoil sport or a sore loser, just try thinking about turning up to the Bathurst 1000 with a car with basic safety problems, they wouldn't let you compete... Land sailing should be NO different.
The moral of the story build it right, build it safe the first time.
Hey Steady up there Gizmo, do you know what and where those wheels are mounted?? For the record these wheels are safer than any of your Plastics, The Nut and axle end is recessed back inside the line of the outer rim and tire plus they are laid back as well.. Look at Occum's Razor you would be run over well and truly before the Nut or Axle even looked like touching you. Another thing is with those Plastics I do not need locking devices because of the method of setup. They are locked up tight with no stress involved on bearings or Hub Center.. All tension is delivered along the axle to the inner stop. Now those axle stubs of yours hang out a good 30mm or better that too is dangerous. I could have around 14mm outside the hub and a plastic plug inserted into it doing the same job
Ron
Hi Chook2 $36.00 + gst is for the complete wheel. model 400x8kno-pwb10, now you can have what ever bearing or plastic sleeve at that price.
Wow, that is an outstanding price. I'm impressed!!!!
Will drop by next time I'm in Perth.
I'm crying in my coffee as I organized 21 wheels, 2 weeks ago at much, much more than that price.
Aint that always the case. I'm just gifted.
Many thanks for your reply,
Chook
All tension is delivered along the axle to the inner stop. Now those axle stubs of yours hang out a good 30mm or better that too is dangerous. I could have around 14mm outside the hub and a plastic plug inserted into it doing the same job
All tension is delivered along the axle to the inner stop. Now those axle stubs of yours hang out a good 30mm or better that too is dangerous. I could have around 14mm outside the hub and a plastic plug inserted into it doing the same job
Oh, getting into the hard stuff now re. yacht safety. Where to draw the line, anthing goes vs. engineers certificate??? As Niaychi pointed out, we are homebuilding these things.
For what its worth; I would say the difference in danger posed by castle nuts vs. lynch pins isn't enough to warrant exclusion. Of course PVC/poly/plastic caps would solve the issue with both systems 
You're right and we don't want to get those WHandS Nongs caught up in the Sport. It is getting harder to find somewhere to play with people of being sued because someone crashes and decides to Sue a quid out of it.
Ron
PS; Gizmo, Why couldn't you have just 6mm outside the Lynchpin and Turn up an internal plug with a shoulder and about 10mm of wood nicely domed the Lynchpin would be put into the Pipe through the plug inside the tube then out the other side and the clip sprung Giving a shorter protuberance and a nice safe finish?? It couldn't possibly fall of without loosing the wheel as well.
