Forums > Land Yacht Sailing General

What is this?

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Created by agamackay > 9 months ago, 24 Aug 2008
agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
24 Aug 2008 5:28PM
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Jes and I spent the weekend at Yeppoon with the blowcarters.
There wasn't much wind but we had a good time.
During the high tide on Saturday afternoon Jes and I explored the northern end of the beach where we came accross an old land yacht in the scrub.
The pod was full of sand with grass and weeds growing in it.
Following the walking track down to the beach we found a hire trailer & tractor,
we asked the girl about the old yacht in the scrub
..."We bought blowcarts about 2 years ago and don't use them any more.
Take it if you like, I'll try and find the sail."...

We pumped up the tyres, sprayed WD40 into the bearings and had it on the beach that afternoon.




Lenght: Axle/axle 2.5m LOA:3.4m
Width : 1.9m.
hieght: 5.4m.
Sail ; 5 - 6 m.
a round white patch with a black diomond "Manders Sailmakers"

But what is it?
I've seen a picture of this design somewhere before but can't find the pic now.
aga

Kody
QLD, 190 posts
24 Aug 2008 6:34PM
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Hi all
I went over to Yeppoon, only 10klms from home, and met all the "blowies" and then some. The wind was rather quiet but I think everyone who came had a great time. A lot of time was passed chatting and listening to each other's stories of successes and failures, design info and "how to do it".
I have to say I felt very honoured to have met up with "aga" and Jess. They certainly are a wonderful family and Jess is a pleasure to chat with. His dad showed me all the work that Jess had done and it was just amazing to see the skills developed in this young man. My only wish is that I could pass onto him many of my own skills and knowledge.
Dave and Ruth met up with me and we shared a cuppa and chocolate cake (provided by "aga") and again swapped lots of info. The one thing that impressed me most of all was the friendliness and hospitality of all who came to Yeppoon. The bottom line for all, was, that the name of the game is to have fun and enjoy each other. My deep thanks to all who came and shared so much with me.

Kody

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
24 Aug 2008 6:36PM
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I think it could be a viking, I have one that I am restoring . several were made at Lake Lefroy around about 1991
Cheers
AUS230

Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
24 Aug 2008 11:32PM
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It's called a freebie!!!!

FAZE5
SA, 55 posts
24 Aug 2008 11:23PM
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G'day all,

An answer to your mystery yachts -

They are "Faze 5" yachts which I sold many years ago to a chap who was setting up a landyacht hire business at Conway beach (near Airlie beach).

They were set up with a different seat to the Faze 5 Given racing yacht, but the chassis were the same. I think I built them about 1990.

Cheers, Bill

cisco
QLD, 12321 posts
25 Aug 2008 6:12AM
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Good score there Aga!! They were the Rydges resort's "Sand Sailers" up until about 4 years ago. I was trying to sell a few blokarts to them at the time. The activities manager there told me they had just spent quite a lot of money doing them up. Then they hardly got used due to lack of interest and/or experience by the activities staff.

The resort took a policy of not hiring them during winds above 15 knots I believe, as there had been a couple of accidents (notice the lack of seat belts) and they are quite heavy machines.

There was two or three more of them there. Could be a good score for you Kody if you can find them.

Cheers Cisco

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
25 Aug 2008 9:28AM
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Bill are the Vikings Faze 5
Cheers
Vic

FAZE5
SA, 55 posts
25 Aug 2008 2:19PM
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Vic,
The Vikings were Paul's design, similar to the Faze 5. He used aero tyres on go kart type rims (which I sent him from local manufacturer in SA) on the rear.
Paul also made wood / fibreglass seats for them.

The original "Faze 5 Given" as we called the yachts we took to America in 1990 had the Ron Given designed fibreglass seat.

If you want to use the same ally wheels I can probably still get them, but talk to Paul first as I think the salt eats them pretty badly.
Cheers,

agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
25 Aug 2008 5:21PM
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Thanks guys .
Any idea why the boom is traped by the mast/axle brace
Seems to me that this severly limits the yacht's down wind ability
And would allow the yacht to run away (as it might with a knoted sheet rope)
I'm thinking of lowering the brace and raising the mast/boom to allow clearence
aga

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
25 Aug 2008 6:11PM
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Thanks Bill
I have a alloy wheels,they are in good nick. The axles where rotted out so I replaced them also fitted wheel barrow wheels.
Thanks for the info
Cheers
Vic

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
25 Aug 2008 9:12PM
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Guys... try tacking downwind unlike water yachts landyachts are VERY slow downwind.
If you tack in a zig zag motion downwind jibing each time you will increase your speed.
You wont need to change the boom setup ......

FAZE5
SA, 55 posts
25 Aug 2008 10:15PM
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G'day Aga,

The Faze 5 was more or less an in between yacht in class 5 design. It was particularly aimed at performing at Ivanpah USA for the Pacrim 1990.

Lake Ivanpah is hard clay, & a very fast surface & we were warned that winds could be very strong. The yacht was deliberately built solid to handle high winds & hard sailing & did well in such conditions. Overall some 30 were built.
The "A" frame for the mast will work fine as it is, but on softer sand it may be worthwhile to run the boom above it to give you more room to sheet out.

You're right in that a yacht can take off when the boom is limited, but it can happen with any sheeting at times & we always had a policy of tipping the yacht over when not being sailed.

Cheers, Bill


Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
25 Aug 2008 11:01PM
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You could change the boom setup to the blokart type.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
25 Aug 2008 9:05PM
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Couple of things to note. Put some full length battens in the sail before you use it as they will punch through the sail.
The upper A frame /boom relationship is correct. In real landyachts you dont sheet out like they do in a blokart. Youve got a proper yacht now. When sailing downwind as giz said you gybe from leg to leg, the opposite to tacking. those attens are broken due to beginners letting the sail toooo far out and just letting the sail wrap around the mast.
Blokarts are easier to learn on. That s the whole point of them welcomr to the big world have fun sail fast,wear a seatbelt

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
26 Aug 2008 2:42PM
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And give it a coat of BRIGHT color paint.... it will make it look like a million bucks....

agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
26 Aug 2008 6:25PM
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Thanks Bill,
I"ll have a play and see how it goes.
Once happy I'll give it a bright coat of paint
Actually hopeing to get the Mrs into it as I can't imajine
the weight and width of it allowing lifting of the windward wheel in Mackay's breeze
aga

agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
26 Aug 2008 8:01PM
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Gizmo said...

Guys... try tacking downwind unlike water yachts landyachts are VERY slow downwind.
If you tack in a zig zag motion downwind jibing each time you will increase your speed.
You wont need to change the boom setup ......



Water yachts also perform better gybing than broad reaching.
Like landyachts on clay pans or salt lakes they have the room.
Landyachts on a N.QLD beach with a making tide might find they have a
2m. wide ribbon of soft sand 20klm from camp with a tail wind.
Why limit your options
aga

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
26 Aug 2008 8:18PM
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Yes exactly " Why limit your options" You now have a yacht designed and built by one of the top landsailors in Australia if not the world, so why limit your options by changing the rig set up he designed?
Perhaps you should try it as is both upwind AND downwind against another yacht and if you aren't happy only then change it.( but at least you can compare the results)
But have the thought.... did the designer know more about the subject then than you do now? And if it was a better rig setup why wouldn't he have used it?

I see so many people change things because they can ... but not often do they come up with a better result

FAZE5
SA, 55 posts
26 Aug 2008 11:07PM
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Please Gizmo... you're making me blush!
Actually Aga has a point..
If you're in a limited downwind position like you describe (been there at times!) you get inventive. In that situation, you could remove the boom & re rig it so that it is on the outside of the A frame (yes, you're stuck on that tack) but it would get you home!

Cheers, Bill

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
26 Aug 2008 10:37PM
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lifting the boom above the Aframe will be worth keping in mind if you have the narrow beach/wind direction situation you describe.
you aint going to go as fast ,but you are going to get there, as opposed to be left down the beach in a REAL landyacht looking and feeling like a plonker.
this may explain why landyachting hasnt taken off until BLOWIES came along in your area

knot board
QLD, 1241 posts
27 Aug 2008 8:59AM
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Hi mate,
I haven't read through all the post so maybe someone said this already.
I remember riding that cart a few years ago.

The guy who ran the beach equipment hire at Rydges resort was a windsurfer.
On occasions I would drive my hilux up the beach to have a windsurf at Corio Bay.
He would flag me down for a chat and give free rides on that landsailor-thingo because no-one ever rented it out.

Good score.

Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
27 Aug 2008 3:21PM
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Is the boom movement these things have enough to depower quickly to get out of trouble when something unexpected comes along?

agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
27 Aug 2008 5:31PM
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landyacht said...

but you are going to get there, as opposed to be left down the beach in a REAL landyacht .


Would increasing the boom's movment reduce the yacht's REALISUM
Most of the new cl5 pictures don't have the brace and therefore a freer boom.
Good point Arjay.
If Bill's time frame is right - built around 1990 - the yacht in question has spent 18 years on a salt sprayed beach in central Qld. The axle end of the brace is rusted and would need to be cut back to reliable steel - 1'' - I could try the yacht with the lowered brace (lowering the brace would allow me to maintain the mast rake) if it doesn't work I can re-extend the end of the brace and re-lower the mast. Raising the mast 4"-6" to allow the boom to clear the lowered brace would also lift the boom end above standing hight (short-average people; tall people are used to banging their heads) should any body be behind the yacht.

aga

hills
SA, 1622 posts
27 Aug 2008 6:28PM
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I wanted to put a lot more sheet rope on my cl5, but was told in no uncertain terms that it wasn't needed. I doubt I would be able to get my boom much further out than yours even though I don't have a brace. Its probably just there so that they didn't drag the sheet along behind them.

And no I don't think I would be able to depower it from the sail alone, I would have to take evasive action with the steering to achieve that. Several times I've approached the leeward mark thinking "Faaaaar..., I wish I was going a lot slower!!" I always seem to make it around though, a testiment to the great design of the yacht.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
27 Aug 2008 6:30PM
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Arjay said...

Is the boom movement these things have enough to depower quickly to get out of trouble when something unexpected comes along?



Here again we see the difference in the 'traditional rig'and the 'blokart rig'
often with the T rig letting out a bit of sheetmakes for a fuller sailand powers you UP . In the B rig you have a sail foot that is also a vang system and as you say you can depower by letting out the sheet. Ive tried the B system on a cl 5 yacht and it never worked particularly well. The early minis we built were eventually converted over to a T system. basically it went faster on the torsional frame yachts we build.
I do think that the Blokart system is a great sytem for beginners and rental situations,but Im talking about the rig as a whole,not just the boom aspect

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
27 Aug 2008 6:37PM
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hills said...



And no I don't think I would be able to depower it from the sail alone, I would have to take evasive action with the steering to achieve that. Several times I've approached the leeward mark thinking "Faaaaar..., I wish I was going a lot slower!!" I always seem to make it around though, a testiment to the great design of the yacht.

As you improve with practice you will learn to take a line to the mark which depowers the yacht for you and you will learn to depower by drifting the yacht,allowing you to come out of your turn under max power with the sail setting just right for your speed. If you have a day when you have the beach to yourself,set up a cone and practice going around that leeward mark,trying different approaches and trying to come out having lost a little distance below the mark as possible. take the time to have a good look at YOURtracks to see the improvement. most importnt is DONT SLOW DOWN

agamackay
QLD, 58 posts
31 Aug 2008 5:16PM
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I cut the stay back and lowerd it by 300mm (1') it is now 450mm high from the keel. The mast foot was a rediculous hight so I cut 750mm off the top it is now 1200mm high from the keel. The mast used to slide all the way down, I fitted an internal stopper to the mast foot to reduce some weight. And for general use I fitted a glass windsufer mast, the aluminium mast can still be used for cl5 comps.
The boom now fits directly on top of the stay clamp and needed very little rising, so there is not standing room under the boom behind the yacht ( you'd get hit in the chest).

To keep both Gizmo and the Mrs happy I gave it a coat of bright red kill rust.

The weight and width of the thing won't allow access to Bucassia beach : (4' wide walk way 200m long and fairly steep) so I took it to Harbour beach, which is not as flat or as hard but is O.K..



While I was taking this photo, the yacht sank, bogged to the chassis
The incredable weight of this thing makes it useless on Mackay's beaches
Maybe I could use it for a cyclone anchor for the house

aga

OLD FART
QLD, 80 posts
31 Aug 2008 6:50PM
Thumbs Up

Kody said...

Hi all
I went over to Yeppoon, only 10klms from home, and met all the "blowies" and then some. The wind was rather quiet but I think everyone who came had a great time. A lot of time was passed chatting and listening to each other's stories of successes and failures, design info and "how to do it".
I have to say I felt very honoured to have met up with "aga" and Jess. They certainly are a wonderful family and Jess is a pleasure to chat with. His dad showed me all the work that Jess had done and it was just amazing to see the skills developed in this young man. My only wish is that I could pass onto him many of my own skills and knowledge.
Dave and Ruth met up with me and we shared a cuppa and chocolate cake (provided by "aga") and again swapped lots of info. The one thing that impressed me most of all was the friendliness and hospitality of all who came to Yeppoon. The bottom line for all, was, that the name of the game is to have fun and enjoy each other. My deep thanks to all who came and shared so much with me.

Kody


OLD FART
QLD, 80 posts
31 Aug 2008 7:07PM
Thumbs Up

Kody: On behalf of Ruth & myself and our fellow blowies from Mackay
we would like to thank you for your kind coments on our hospitalty and
friendliness.It is a part of of of the code we are trying to foster at Central
Qld Blokart Club as a family friendly club, we are not just devoted to Blokarts
loving any thing that has a sail and wheels, we will be definatly be having
more sailaway weekends at yeppoon and its wounderfull beach,as well as the
Australasian titles at Rydges in March, will keep you posted.
Regards: Dave The Old Fart In A Blokart

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
31 Aug 2008 6:00PM
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agamackay said...

I cut the stay back and lowerd it by 300mm (1') it is now 450mm high from the keel. The mast foot was a rediculous hight so I cut 750mm off the top it is now 1200mm high from the keel. The mast used to slide all the way down, I fitted an internal stopper to the mast foot to reduce some weight. And for general use I fitted a glass windsufer mast, the aluminium mast can still be used for cl5 comps.
The boom now fits directly on top of the stay clamp and needed very little rising, so there is not standing room under the boom behind the yacht ( you'd get hit in the chest).

To keep both Gizmo and the Mrs happy I gave it a coat of bright red kill rust.

The weight and width of the thing won't allow access to Bucassia beach : (4' wide walk way 200m long and fairly steep) so I took it to Harbour beach, which is not as flat or as hard but is O.K..



While I was taking this photo, the yacht sank, bogged to the chassis
The incredable weight of this thing makes it useless on Mackay's beaches
Maybe I could use it for a cyclone anchor for the house

aga

It looks like you chose a time when the tide was on the move ,making the beach go soggy.anyway,now the yacht has come up to Gizmos presentation standard its time to get that rig sitting properly.
sheet thesail in hard and the battens should be parallel to the chassis/ground. to achieve this you will need to loosen off the mast foot clamp and slide it forward. at th moment the mast is way too vertical . the boom should be above thet clamp when fully sheeted. if you are using a glass mast and there is any kind of pressure from the boom when sheeted in hard you can kiss that mast goodbye. they are not designe for that kind of focused load. you will have to consider putting some kind of internal stiffener at that point to carry the load

Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
31 Aug 2008 10:40PM
Thumbs Up

I think there are many reasons why people buy, build and use different things. I am so glad we are all unique, it would be so boring if we were all the same. Praise the Lord.



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"What is this?" started by agamackay