This is the same moment from different angle.
The block is just before the winch to prevent overrun, this is probably as close I can go, leech cranked up.
I got a new sail at Christmas , all picture are taken that time.
At the moment, stuck in Brizi, not much chance to take more.
I'm not a sails maker but.....
It's odd becasue you usually start with the car at such a spot so that the sheet angle (carried fwd) bisects the forestay half way up the headsail.
Now by the look of your pics I would say the sheet angle bisects the forestay lower than 50%, which would mean the car is too far aft, but if you say your leech is already too tight then it does sound like the sail is cut too loose on the leech.
That said, when I say close hauled, the jib should be pretty close to touching your spreaders, if not touching, which it is a long way from doing in the above pic? Or do you feel like the leech would be too tight before getting it close to the spreader? The leech doesn't look real tight in the pic, although that's a bit of a guess from that pic
Select to expand quoteGalatea said..
Australian made budget furlers
www.furlings.com.au
$1400 for a Top Hat Steve.
Select to expand quotenswsailor said..Galatea said..
Australian made budget furlers
www.furlings.com.au
$1400 for a Top Hat Steve.
thats more than the alado which is 1080
just got off the phone with the main man at furlings.com. What a lovely man. $1100 for this system and it sounds rock solid. He's sending me up a kit to mesure the forestay and some info. My jib is very good and he will also send a plan for the sail maker when he makes the furler for me. It all sounds really good. He said the furler is exactly the same system, same parts etc as a furler for an 80 footer. He also said that the furler is really strong and can handle gale conditions. he sounded very genuine and knowledgable. Ill be going for this for sure. For about 1300 ill get a good reefer furler. What a great mod. im excited! THanks everyone for your input and info on this matter!
That sound really good, you enjoy comfort od managing head sails from cockpit.
Just recovered a video and pictures from my prev. boat Swanson 32. My Genoa fully out the Leech touch the safety rails,
doing 6.5 knots / 15 knots wind just on Genoa . That was excellent set up.
Now my foot of Genoa is around 1/2 m above cabin, the boat struggle to pick up speed./1/2 meter on 7 m boat is a lot/
What is your proposed Genoa cut.
Select to expand quoteCharriot said..
That sound really good, you enjoy comfort od managing head sails from cockpit.
Just recovered a video and pictures from my prev. boat Swanson 32. My Genoa fully out the Leech touch the safety rails,
doing 6.5 knots / 15 knots wind just on Genoa . That was excellent set up.
Now my foot of Genoa is around 1/2 m above cabin, the boat struggle to pick up speed./1/2 meter on 7 m boat is a lot/
What is your proposed Genoa cut.
Im still not too sure of the cut but not much will change from my main number 1 sail. My clew is fairly high and im told by the furler maker this would mean i need more UV protection and it must me applied correctly. He really knows his stuff and will sort that out for the sail maker/plan cut. Not much mods to the sail really. Maybe $200 maximum and should be able to be done on the spot. I will remove tacks and clews hardware(whatever theyre called!) i have 4 of them as this sail is a reefable jib number 1&2.
Is that the best shape you can get out of your sail with that current cut? im no expert for sure, but if so thats a shame. Can you not get it any flatter?
I think you need to push that sail maker to make that cut better. I wouldnt be taking no for an answer. No way!
Tha Alado and Reefurl are pretty agricultural. I went for a Profurl, a bit more expensive but an excellent bit of kit for furling and to reef the sail down. I have a Rolly Tasker sail with luff foam. It reefs down to about 50% and retains its shape. The boat points well with it at 50%.
I've never had a jammed furler and I'm not sure whether people mean the rope (furling line) jammed or if it was some sort of mechanical failure that resulted in the jam. I know they do have mechanical failures but the words "maintenance and inspection" come to mind.
1. When deploying the head sail I am very carful to never let the furling line ride up on the spool and if it starts to do this, I pull it back out a bit to make sure I end up with a nice even layer of rope across the whole of the spool.
2 I always keep tension on the furling line as I deploy the sail so that the line is tightly wrapped around the spool. This prevents any chance of the rope pulling down through the lower layers of rope on the spool when I start to furl the sail back up.
3. I always have a controlled amount of tension on the sail as I roll it back up so the sail is wound tightly around the forestay. I use a small winch to assist.
4. I never ever roll the head sail up when it is flogging in the wind due to loose sheet ropes. This is why people have head sails wine glass (if going downwind) on them and it can also lead to loosely wound head sails coming undone at the top and flogging themselves to death in high wind situations.
I use my roller furlers in over 30knots conditions without any problems.
I tend to think that roller furlers get bad press due to how people use them and it is not the actual furler that is the problem. When you point the finger at someone or something, there are all ways 3 fingers in your hand pointing back at you. When things go pear shaped for me, I always ask myself what I could have done to to prevent this and not immediately start looking for someone or something to blame.
Plus if you buy a cheap furler you'll get a cheap furler. And it won't fail until the sh#t hits the fan.
I have a Profurl with an open spool so I can see what's going on with the furling line as it winds up. The closed spool type furlers make this precaution not possible, so it is critical that tension is always kept on the line when deploying.
They are certainly not needed for cruising but f#ck the make life easy and safer. I am a 99% solo sailor and with ocean passages thrown in. At 2am in the morning with a bit of fatigue, wind and water over the deck, a correctly used roller furler is a gift from the gods.
Well, these are my thoughts and as usual I could have it all wrong, but it works for me. 
Good points all Crusoe!
I can vouch for the Facnor flat deck furlers, max mechanical advantage when furling, works well even in high winds.
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Select to expand quoteMorningBird said..
Tha Alado and Reefurl are pretty agricultural. I went for a Profurl, a bit more expensive but an excellent bit of kit for furling and to reef the sail down. I have a Rolly Tasker sail with luff foam. It reefs down to about 50% and retains its shape. The boat points well with it at 50%.
The profurl for my boat isn't that much more expensive. Probably be worth spending a bit extra right?
Select to expand quoteCharriot said..
This is the same moment from different angle.
The block is just before the winch to prevent overrun, this is probably as close I can go, leech cranked up.
I got a new sail at Christmas , all picture are taken that time.
At the moment, stuck in Brizi, not much chance to take more.
I had a similar problem with a head-sail, I had Evolution sails on the Gold Coast cut sail off the bottom, tapered 6 inches at the tack to nothing at the clew. That lowered the clew and tightened up the foot, it only cost a little over $300 including some re-sewing of quite a few seams. I have no trouble with halyard wrap with the loss of 6 inches luff height and the loss of area is unnoticeable.
I cant understand the cut of that sail. All the camber seems to be way back near the leach, as if there is no halyard tension. That sail-maker needs to be held accountable.
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..MorningBird said..
Tha Alado and Reefurl are pretty agricultural. I went for a Profurl, a bit more expensive but an excellent bit of kit for furling and to reef the sail down. I have a Rolly Tasker sail with luff foam. It reefs down to about 50% and retains its shape. The boat points well with it at 50%.
The profurl for my boat isn't that much more expensive. Probably be worth spending a bit extra right?
YES!!!!
Select to expand quotecisco said..Sectorsteve said..MorningBird said..
Tha Alado and Reefurl are pretty agricultural. I went for a Profurl, a bit more expensive but an excellent bit of kit for furling and to reef the sail down. I have a Rolly Tasker sail with luff foam. It reefs down to about 50% and retains its shape. The boat points well with it at 50%.
The profurl for my boat isn't that much more expensive. Probably be worth spending a bit extra right?
YES!!!!
Yes
Select to expand quoteHG02 said..cisco said..Sectorsteve said..MorningBird said..
Tha Alado and Reefurl are pretty agricultural. I went for a Profurl, a bit more expensive but an excellent bit of kit for furling and to reef the sail down. I have a Rolly Tasker sail with luff foam. It reefs down to about 50% and retains its shape. The boat points well with it at 50%.
The profurl for my boat isn't that much more expensive. Probably be worth spending a bit extra right?
YES!!!!
Yes
I've had 5 profurls over the years and they are certainly strong and maintenance free units. And you have to agree with what Crusoe says about controlling the furling line. But I have had foul-ups with the Profurls when the line gets away from you, which can happen even in the best of times - the open spool can let the line fly out of the spool and wrap around the base of the furler or jam between the spool and the guide ring. That never happened with my Furlex or North closed spool furlers. But I have had the line jam in a Furlex and it was then more difficult to clear than in the Profurl. And I had a cheap Reefurl on a 12 meter cat that was a bit agricultural but actually quite trouble free. It died of old age and I replaced it with a Profurl.
Sounds like a bitch about furlers, but I think anyone cruising without one is either broke or a little strange. And either conditon is perfectly OK, in fact it describes most cruising folk. But of course you can go to windward with the heady rolled down to 1/3 area - just as close as you will go under a storm sail. So why risk limb if not life on a plunging fore-deck in high winds when you don't have to.
If I thought I was risking life and limb when I went on the foredeck, I wouldn't go offshore. And when did the last person lose their life or a limb while changing a sail on the foredeck?
If and when we move to a long-range cruiser, it will probably have a roller furler, but there are people who have cruised for eons without them who are neither strange or broke. Here's a well-argued case;
www.morganscloud.com/2012/03/08/hank-on-sails/
Please explain what you mean by agricultural In regards to the reefurl??? so you say it was trouble free..?? I'm strange and broke, this is true but it certainly isn't the reason for my apprehension in installing a furler. The reason is, I do not want to be caught in high winds/testing conditions with a full head sail out that I cannot get back in. in my mind this potential scenario is more dangerous and scary than swapping out sails on the foredeck for which I have a great system and nothing can go wrong with it. As Chris said, if your practised, familiar and it does go for anything at all in life, then it's relatively safe. Im a bit confused still about what to do. I think a lot of cruisers are loving their furlers, but there's a few that have gone back to hanks, & won't use furlers at all. An old salty sea dog from the USA who was training me in Pittwater a few years back said hanks were better, and this guy sailed around the world with them and does a lot of deliveries. I love the idea of furlers. Just hate the idea of the thing jamming and giving me grief at sea.
furlers remind me of my roll up blinds at home. They jam sometimes leaving the blinds either up or down. if the furler jammed and You were without a inner forestay , then what??
Select to expand quoteSectorsteve said..
Please explain what you mean by agricultural In regards to the reefurl??? so you say it was trouble free..?? I'm strange and broke, this is true but it certainly isn't the reason for my apprehension in installing a furler. The reason is, I do not want to be caught in high winds/testing conditions with a full head sail out that I cannot get back in. in my mind this potential scenario is more dangerous and scary than swapping out sails on the foredeck for which I have a great system and nothing can go wrong with it. As Chris said, if your practised, familiar and it does go for anything at all in life, then it's relatively safe. Im a bit confused still about what to do. I think a lot of cruisers are loving their furlers, but there's a few that have gone back to hanks, & won't use furlers at all. An old salty sea dog from the USA who was training me in Pittwater a few years back said hanks were better, and this guy sailed around the world with them and does a lot of deliveries. I love the idea of furlers. Just hate the idea of the thing jamming and giving me grief at sea.
furlers remind me of my roll up blinds at home. They jam sometimes leaving the blinds either up or down. if the furler jammed and You were without a inner forestay , then what??
As cisco said some time back, the halyard block being incorporated in the foil tends to introduce sag in the fore-stay. The bearings in the sleeves wear off center so that, combined with the sag, furling the sail becomes awkward - the foil flops around the fore-stay instead of spinning freely, the furling line sort of has to pull the sail up to windward to start the furl, then the foil springs around to the starting position, then repeat ad nauseum.
The number of times that I have had a jammed furler are minute and I have always been able to clear them. And they never occurred when I did as Crusoe recommended. I agree that hanks don't jam and that you can leave the dropped sail hanked on in a sail cover, and with twin head stays you can change sail fairly easily, but the sheer convenience of a furler means that for coastal and bay sailing you do more sailing and less motoring.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
If I thought I was risking life and limb when I went on the foredeck, I wouldn't go offshore. And when did the last person lose their life or a limb while changing a sail on the foredeck?
If and when we move to a long-range cruiser, it will probably have a roller furler, but there are people who have cruised for eons without them who are neither strange or broke. Here's a well-argued case;
www.morganscloud.com/2012/03/08/hank-on-sails/
On the fore-deck of a cat or 40 footer, yes not much risk, but on a 33 foot mono in the conditions that need a sail change, you are hanging on with one hand and scruffing a mess of sail cloth with teeth and feet and the other. And if you have to pull the luff down in a stiff breeze you have to dodge sheets and clew cringles and flogging cloth, so you do risk hitting things and being hit by things and getting bruises.
I think it comes down to what you think is an acceptable risk . I have a furler , it has had a jam while furling up , was very easy to crawl forward and free the rope while harnessed on . In my head I was thinking how many 360 s would I have to do to get it away lol . Would I be without one . No . I now look at the rope before furling and can tell if it's going to be an issue , go forward if I have to for a minute then it's all good . Without it I would be on the foredeck a lot longer . Mine is also very agricultural , no swivel bearings at the top or bottom to play up just a plain bush on the forestay . The halyard clips back onto the furling drum . My mates is a beautiful piece of kit with Teflon bearings top and bottom with wonderful swivels so you can use the halyard on the mast , sounds like a maintanance issue waiting to happen . Each to there own . Its not essential to have it to go sailing , but it's nice to have . Like an anchor winch ( I don't have one of those ??)
Select to expand quoteoldboyracer said..
I think it comes down to what you think is an acceptable risk . I have a furler , it has had a jam while furling up , was very easy to crawl forward and free the rope while harnessed on . In my head I was thinking how many 360 s would I have to do to get it away lol . Would I be without one . No . I now look at the rope before furling and can tell if it's going to be an issue , go forward if I have to for a minute then it's all good . Without it I would be on the foredeck a lot longer . Mine is also very agricultural , no swivel bearings at the top or bottom to play up just a plain bush on the forestay . The halyard clips back onto the furling drum . My mates is a beautiful piece of kit with Teflon bearings top and bottom with wonderful swivels so you can use the halyard on the mast , sounds like a maintanance issue waiting to happen . Each to there own . Its not essential to have it to go sailing , but it's nice to have . Like an anchor winch ( I don't have one of those ??)
Oh wonder of wonders, I now have an anchor winch with wireless remote and rode counter. Oh heavenly bliss. It came with the boat.
Select to expand quotePhoenixStar said..oldboyracer said..
I think it comes down to what you think is an acceptable risk . I have a furler , it has had a jam while furling up , was very easy to crawl forward and free the rope while harnessed on . In my head I was thinking how many 360 s would I have to do to get it away lol . Would I be without one . No . I now look at the rope before furling and can tell if it's going to be an issue , go forward if I have to for a minute then it's all good . Without it I would be on the foredeck a lot longer . Mine is also very agricultural , no swivel bearings at the top or bottom to play up just a plain bush on the forestay . The halyard clips back onto the furling drum . My mates is a beautiful piece of kit with Teflon bearings top and bottom with wonderful swivels so you can use the halyard on the mast , sounds like a maintanance issue waiting to happen . Each to there own . Its not essential to have it to go sailing , but it's nice to have . Like an anchor winch ( I don't have one of those ??)
Oh wonder of wonders, I now have an anchor winch with wireless remote and rode counter. Oh heavenly bliss. It came with the boat.
I any go for a furler , but never an anchor winch on my 25 footer! Too easy to do by hand. No worries! Thanks guys for the help with this decision. It's a pretty important one for me as I'll be heading north next year solo for most of it...
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
If I thought I was risking life and limb when I went on the foredeck, I wouldn't go offshore. And when did the last person lose their life or a limb while changing a sail on the foredeck?
If and when we move to a long-range cruiser, it will probably have a roller furler, but there are people who have cruised for eons without them who are neither strange or broke. Here's a well-argued case;
www.morganscloud.com/2012/03/08/hank-on-sails/
Chris, if you haven't been knocked around and bruised on the foredeck of a small yacht you haven't been on the foredeck of a small yacht in high winds and seas. The step from battered and bruised to injured ain't far. A broken finger or deep laceration can ruin everything on a short handed yacht.
Sectorsteve, that sail changing process that works really well in sheltered waters is a whole different ball game in 5 metre+ seas and 35 kts. MB can have 2 or more ft of solid water trying to stop you doing whatever it is you want to do. A 25 footer???
The argument for not having a good furler and sail on a cruising boat boils down to cost and/or prejudice. Cost is a very valid argument but the only one that is valid. They make cruising safer and more comfortable, they don't slow the boat down in cruising mode and good ones jam very rarely and usually due to lack of care. When they do jam, freeing the jam is usually far simpler than changing a sail.
I read frustration in your words. Deep frustration. 
If you think, a day or two on the Harbour on my boat would take you closer to fulfill your plans, you would be welcome.
You could set the stay sail, furl, reef or whatever to help you to quell your thouhts. And you could fire up my bloody charcoal bbq to boot.
By the way, this is a rig you are thinkin of:
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
I read frustration in your words. Deep frustration.
If you think, a day or two on the Harbour on my boat would take you closer to fulfill your plans, you would be welcome.
You could set the stay sail, furl, reef or whatever to help you to quell your thouhts. And you could fire up my bloody charcoal bbq to boot.
By the way, this is a rig you are thinkin of:
That is the rig in thinking of. I'm not fussed about the money. Really Not. I'd spend extra on a good one as opposed to an agricultural one. Just worried about how they perform. windage. Weight on the forestay etc. if you guys say they're ok, I believe you. But then someone like Ciscos post rings in my other ear. Saying he'd have hanks everyday of the week and twice on Sunday on something under 40 foot. I def wanna be safer. that's for sure. At this point in time travelling up the coast scares me a bit as I've not done anything but a few small jaunts up and down between Pittwater and port ha king about 6 times. Only one in weather.
Select to expand quotesirgallivant said..
Hence my offer Steve!
Exactly. I'll be keen as to take you up on that. I think that's the answer. thanks a lot!
