Code Foils believe the hype

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drc13 said..

timmcg89 said..
My mates selling his mountain bike and wants to get into foiling. He's got up behind a boat on my axis gear.. I said he should just invest in code from the start as that's what I would be riding if I wasn't so invested in axis, seems like the best reviews and saves the bother of re-selling and changing brands once he's progressed . would the 850s be viable to learn on? Tail wing? long fusalage? He's around 90kg

I'd also consider unifoil progression for his first kit, I've moved from Uni to Code but I feel the Uni was an easier kit to ride it's just not much good once you get into waves with a bit of energyIf he's a rank beginner and wants to go with code at 90kg I'd be going 980s at a minimum but the 1130s would be better again, long fuse and 158AR would probably go well with it but it's all going to depend on what level he is at right now and what kind of conditions he's going to be learning in.

Not at 90kg as he'll have to use the P170 and even on katana the screws come loose and you can feel flexing, plus if on the east coast of Australia, progressions aren't really suited for our conditions, I sold my uni setup pretty quickly after purchase, like many others.

Axis has a good following in Australia, he could pick up a cheap second hand setup, so resale won't be a problem and maybe an easier journey for a beginner.

Code foils are great, and once you own code, no need to look for other foils IMO, but I'm not sure I could've learnt on them.

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noepoxy said..

drc13 said..

timmcg89 said..
My mates selling his mountain bike and wants to get into foiling. He's got up behind a boat on my axis gear.. I said he should just invest in code from the start as that's what I would be riding if I wasn't so invested in axis, seems like the best reviews and saves the bother of re-selling and changing brands once he's progressed . would the 850s be viable to learn on? Tail wing? long fusalage? He's around 90kg

I'd also consider unifoil progression for his first kit, I've moved from Uni to Code but I feel the Uni was an easier kit to ride it's just not much good once you get into waves with a bit of energyIf he's a rank beginner and wants to go with code at 90kg I'd be going 980s at a minimum but the 1130s would be better again, long fuse and 158AR would probably go well with it but it's all going to depend on what level he is at right now and what kind of conditions he's going to be learning in.

Not at 90kg as he'll have to use the P170 and even on katana the screws come loose and you can feel flexing, plus if on the east coast of Australia, progressions aren't really suited for our conditions, I sold my uni setup pretty quickly after purchase, like many others.

Axis has a good following in Australia, he could pick up a cheap second hand setup, so resale won't be a problem and maybe an easier journey for a beginner.

Code foils are great, and once you own code, no need to look for other foils IMO, but I'm not sure I could've learnt on them.

Good info. not sure I agree the codes are more difficult to learn on than others. I think that slight anhedral in the front and back makes them balanced and intuitive right out of the box especially if you are coming at it as a (fin) surfer.
My 12yo behind the boat on the 850. 3rd try:
www.instagram.com/reel/CypUaHRPJrv/?igshid=N2ViNmM2MDRjNw==

(I would suggest the 980 as a starting point for 90kg or maybe the 1130 but I have not ridden it just educated guess).

I own an artpro 951 and a 770r. @ 72kg on the ding. I find the 770r has a lower stall speed and a longer slower sink rate. The 951 feels faster but is harder to maintain pitch control, although it glides well it has a fast sink rate at just above stall speed. They both turn to hunt small lake waves equally well. My preference is the 770, it is relaxing to ride at speed and more fun at just above stall.
951 crazy short advanced. 400p. (after much experimenting with fuse length and tails)
770r long fuse, ar150.

Anybody have 300+ hours on a Code front foil wing yet? More importantly anybody over 90Kg?
This is what happens to my Lift wings after about 300 hours, tiny spider cracks start developing in that super thin web area where the TE attaches to the fuse (I also have a Go Foil wing doing the same) You'll see the salt crystals develop as it dries. Doesn't seem to go anywhere or have any impact to usability but still can't be good.

I would appreciate an honest assessment of Code longevity when you guys get some serious use on them.

I'd have apx same hours as Hilly spread out across the 720 , 850 , 980 & 1130 Code and no issues at all . My Cabrinha foils did the same as the Lift pics above plus I've fixed quite a few Lift rear wings doing the same thing for mates. This is my stats just for December 1378 waves on the Codes using a Prone foil drive . I don't come off foil unless I crash so this is a true text for the construction with plenty of bottom impacts . 31 sessions and that's only when I wore my watch at least another 10 session not recorded . I'm mates with Benny but still but my Codes so not a team rider ( there are none ) you just need to look at a Code , everything is thicker and stronger . The plate is longer , all connection points are built up and stronger . The fuse and wing connections are also the same. The boys main purpose was to build a stiff strong foil first which they have done and use quality carbon . It's not one of the lightest foils on the market buts it's definitely one of the strongest , if not the strongest .

The DW Sup crew here run the 150 on both the 770 & 860 so really don't need a new rear wing . They also use the 770 as their first choice for DW . When I DW with them on the Ding I struggle to keep up on the 980s so the 770r is super quick , I'd be leaning towards that if I was you . IMHO

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Piros said..
I'd have apx same hours as Hilly spread out across the 720 , 850 , 980 & 1130 Code and no issues at all . My Cabrinha foils did the same as the Lift pics above plus I've fixed quite a few Lift rear wings doing the same thing for mates. This is my stats just for December 1378 waves on the Codes using a Prone foil drive . I don't come off foil unless I crash so this is a true text for the construction with plenty of bottom impacts . 31 sessions and that's only when I wore my watch at least another 10 session not recorded . I'm mates with Benny but still but my Codes so not a team rider ( there are none ) you just need to look at a Code , everything is thicker and stronger . The plate is longer , all connection points are built up and stronger . The fuse and wing connections are also the same. The boys main purpose was to build a stiff strong foil first which they have done and use quality carbon . It's not one of the lightest foils on the market buts it's definitely one of the strongest , if not the strongest .

I demoed the code and I'm sure it's well built and will last , but I've also been trying the uni progression and I would say it's more solid ,especially mast to wing connections which are M8 instead of M6. The plugs on the uni mast are easily replaced if you did ever snap an M8 screw but the code M6 ones are buried in the mast and if you did strip one I don't know how you would fix it . Code is also using brass inserts which is softer and stainless screws to go into them but that should be fine.Code do warn about over tightening as they won't be responsible for stripped inserts, mainly for people who use impact tools I think. I don't see any probs with Code system but it's not as heavy duty as the uni.

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noepoxy said..

kobo said..

Piros said..
I'd have apx same hours as Hilly spread out across the 720 , 850 , 980 & 1130 Code and no issues at all . My Cabrinha foils did the same as the Lift pics above plus I've fixed quite a few Lift rear wings doing the same thing for mates. This is my stats just for December 1378 waves on the Codes using a Prone foil drive . I don't come off foil unless I crash so this is a true text for the construction with plenty of bottom impacts . 31 sessions and that's only when I wore my watch at least another 10 session not recorded . I'm mates with Benny but still but my Codes so not a team rider ( there are none ) you just need to look at a Code , everything is thicker and stronger . The plate is longer , all connection points are built up and stronger . The fuse and wing connections are also the same. The boys main purpose was to build a stiff strong foil first which they have done and use quality carbon . It's not one of the lightest foils on the market buts it's definitely one of the strongest , if not the strongest .

I demoed the code and I'm sure it's well built and will last , but I've also been trying the uni progression and I would say it's more solid ,especially mast to wing connections which are M8 instead of M6. The plugs on the uni mast are easily replaced if you did ever snap an M8 screw but the code M6 ones are buried in the mast and if you did strip one I don't know how you would fix it . Code is also using brass inserts which is softer and stainless screws to go into them but that should be fine.Code do warn about over tightening as they won't be responsible for stripped inserts, mainly for people who use impact tools I think. I don't see any probs with Code system but it's not as heavy duty as the uni.

You've missed the point of the design of the code fuselage to mast connection. It is designed in a way where is does not rely on screws for strength, hence why only m6.

I had uni progression/katana for roughly 4 months, 98kgs, the connection wasn't strong and mast to fuse fitting wasn't as tight as code and uni relied on bolts for strength, I could feel the uni gear moving/loosening under me, and mine came loose all the time, plus it is not the right foil for east coast of australia, well progression wings that is, too much drag and slow, mast has a lot of drag too, hence why I sold it quickly.

Actually uni was the quickest turn over in foil brand I have had.

Code is the next level compared to uni progressions and katana masts, can't compare to vypers as different design completely and the vypers were/are good foils.

I must of missed how the code is designed not to rely on the M6 screws, can you explain how it's different from the others that use the mast into front wing design for me please ? I thought it was exactly design as in lift,uni, latest cloud9 etc. Thats definitely the most simple and strongest connection anyhow.

Always interesting to get other experiences I'm 80 kg and I rode the code 75/850s/150 no shim with medium fuse. I'm comparing it to the uni progression 140/83katana/shiv no shim medium fuse.

I would be happy with either setup for prone I recon , not that much in it really, The uni mast is pretty heavy but don't notice that in the water, Speeds felt pretty much the same to me , the uni is virtually fool proof to pump and never seems to stall whereas the code did stall on me pumping but it was in a rip. The progression has a smoother rail to rail turning feel but the code turned well too it just had a small locked in sensation before roll over but not a big deal. Comparisons are really hard when a different fuse,tail or shim can make a lot of difference but both setups are pretty good I recon.I'm about to try the new Armstrong HA880 so that should be interesting as they really haven't had a surf specific wing up till now. Got a feeling that they are all starting to converge now and the differences between brands is getting smaller.

I have no affiliation with code and I vote with my wallet and pay full retail (don't want to brand bash just interested in good gear that works for me at my weight and conditions), one cannot compare the mast fuse connection of code vs uni and have no idea about other brands. Look at racing yacht keel design, tons of weight holding on by a couple of tiny bolts, same principle applies with code, hence the m6. I suggest watch the code mast video to gain an appreciation of their USP compared to other brands. Uni relies on M8's to take the load, which is the opposite of code.

@kobo 80kg rider vs 98kg rider = big difference, FWIW I rode mainly the p170 and p140/med fuse and 14 shiv, mainly winging, and sup foil.

I'm sure everyone has a diff opinion on brands but just find what works for your style, disciplines and weight and your local conditions!

I'm getting closer to finding mine, but haven't seen any guys > 95kg down winding with code yet...so one brand might not be enough for me...

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noepoxy said..
one cannot compare the mast fuse connection of code vs uni and have no idea about other brands....

They are virtually identical. There's a reason so many brands have gone this route, the bolts are just there for safety, they bear almost NO load. It's a simple Morse taper that's been in use for 150 years. 80Kg vs 98Kg is indeed a very big difference but a Morse taper is unfazed by that tiny dif. 98Kg on an F-one system, it's going to fail a lot sooner. Forget to check the bolts and you've lost the plane. Never going to happen with Code, Uni, Lift, et. al. I'd sell those Uni titanium M8's and replace them immediately with stainless though.

Meanwhile... how about those Code foils eh?

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kobo said..

Piros said..
I'd have apx same hours as Hilly spread out across the 720 , 850 , 980 & 1130 Code and no issues at all . My Cabrinha foils did the same as the Lift pics above plus I've fixed quite a few Lift rear wings doing the same thing for mates. This is my stats just for December 1378 waves on the Codes using a Prone foil drive . I don't come off foil unless I crash so this is a true text for the construction with plenty of bottom impacts . 31 sessions and that's only when I wore my watch at least another 10 session not recorded . I'm mates with Benny but still but my Codes so not a team rider ( there are none ) you just need to look at a Code , everything is thicker and stronger . The plate is longer , all connection points are built up and stronger . The fuse and wing connections are also the same. The boys main purpose was to build a stiff strong foil first which they have done and use quality carbon . It's not one of the lightest foils on the market buts it's definitely one of the strongest , if not the strongest .

I demoed the code and I'm sure it's well built and will last , but I've also been trying the uni progression and I would say it's more solid ,especially mast to wing connections which are M8 instead of M6. The plugs on the uni mast are easily replaced if you did ever snap an M8 screw but the code M6 ones are buried in the mast and if you did strip one I don't know how you would fix it . Code is also using brass inserts which is softer and stainless screws to go into them but that should be fine.Code do warn about over tightening as they won't be responsible for stripped inserts, mainly for people who use impact tools I think. I don't see any probs with Code system but it's not as heavy duty as the uni.

Im not sure why you think the threaded inserts are brass. Brass is a strange choice in a salt environment. Bronze is far superior to brass and stainless. Have Code clarified their spec.

The video below at 1:15 goes into the mast to foil connection in some detail.

Code make a fair bit of fuss about designing their products for durability and longevity. I have a kite foil mast with a similar connection (obviously not Code). It's got 900 hours of jumping and riding into the bottom on it with no sign of wear or damage. My mast has stainless barrel nuts which are very robust and easy to replace, not that they've needed it. My foil came with spares.

My Gofoils have stainless helical inserts. Not particularly robust but easy to replace. The mast has 400 hours with no more than a few chips and scratches.

?si=3yCkLL_WH7XU5oQI

Can someone give a direct comparison between the 770r and 860r on the ding please.
your wieght, set up and conditions included.

hi, somebody tried the flatwater pop up with the R860?

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max72 said..
hi, somebody tried the flatwater pop up with the R860?

Yes I can flatwater paddle it quite easy for me, question?
I'm 78kg and downwind a lot.