Of course you can hijack... You started it! Haha... Nice vid DJ... That however is only a dream for sup boards... Carving tighter, quicker arcs with power and speed is where my mind is really aiming... Are we there like in this vid from over 2 years ago? Not even remotely close... Can we get here? Can we get here at all ever? We shall see how close... I will add this... If we even get close, it is waaaay ahead of what's going on now...
Great vids both of them.
Well done on the latest bamboo ripper series too Blane. Rode the 8'0"R, its a bit small for my weight but loved how it surfed so I bought and 8'6". I was a bit worried the 8'6" wouldnt feel as good but it is almost the same board so I am so stoked as. friken so sweet. Eyeing off the 8'11"R for a bigger wave machine.
Cheers,
Scotty
Hey Logman, regarding noses, I think the general consensis is that more nose volume on any board (more so a sup becasue of their size) is more swing weight = more effort to bring the nose around. Also I have noticed going from one 8.8 to another 8.8, the first with more nose width/volume that when turning/coming back down the wave I dont catch the nose edge and eat **** any where near as much on the pulled in nose board.
even though you arnt duck diving, alot of the time paddling out you have to punch the nose through a breaking or almost breaking wave, I would think that less nose would help make a clean entry and track straight through..........
it really is personal preference and surfstyle/waves riden. look at the guys/girls ripping on Laguna bay boards and though some have pulled in noses most Ive seen dont. Great riders on great boards, but not for me (not a great rider either)
my first comment wasnt having a go at nore "negative wanker" comment towards blane or his boards. Just my opinon that not all things are the same around the world. From what im getting, he is drawing a more shortboard outline on the bottom of the board and then working the width/volume requirments from them....a different concept that definitly seems to be working for him and others. Will it meet the same potential over here on the East coast???? only time will tell
Select to expand quotelog man said...
[b I was looking at some of the kite surf boards the other day. They struck me as tools totally suited for the job, an evolutionary change from sail boarding for sure, but the designs looked like they had come from a history of clean sheets of paper rather than carrying the baggage of the conservatism of the surf industry. sssssssssssssssssoooooooooooo I don't care if it looks like a shortboard,longboard,kiteboard,whateva , I just want to see boards and performance progress quickly free of the safety net that the short board design parameters provide. So ok if in twenty years time we all agree that the "scaled up " idea was the way to go, then great but lets not rule out designs cause they don't look "right".
[b
This is kind of what I am getting at. Although the desired end result is the same on a shortboard as a sup the means of achieving that result are different. Something that can and does take off well before a wave has broken I.e a sup can not perform the same as a craft that takes off right on the peak when purely scaled up or down. This is where we need to look to shortboard design for a starting point and develop our own ideas doing which is what blane is doing.
I'm betting Jodie Smith and Taj would be happy to claim some of those mooves.
Hey DJ you're getting good at starting interesting impartial posts & keeping them real - nice work.
This post has even inspired me wake from stand up comedy paddle forum hybernation to comment - Great discussion. seabreeze forum has been bit ho-hum look at my bum of late :)
Seems like mainstream SUP designers and forum couch-dwellers think the holy grail of design is an attempt to scale-up High-Performance surfboards ( with disregard for the reality of SUP being completely different to surfing 5'11"-6'2" HP surfboards ) I do get sick of hearing the claim "MY SUP surfs just like a Shortboard" ummm - no it doesn't - it goes like a Barge compared to a 6ft surfboard! Good to see a shaper not afraid to try designs that look different - even going so far as to say revolutionary PSHycadelically mind-altering performance enhancements 
Later Breezer geezers
Read this whole thread this morning for the first time. Don't have anything to add but just wanted to say what an enjoyable read it was. Threads like this give me that warm feeling. Special mentions to the log, gmc and everyone else who contributed. Well done!
about a year and a half ago i watched a sup comp, then next day went to my local board riders club comp prompting me to post something like' we aren't turning fast enough'. i mentioned sups lacked turning speed, too slow off the bottom and top compared to shortboards etc etc- pretty much got roasted for it too.
what has struck me with the hull ripper vids i've seen is they are coming off the bottom and top faster and i would say thats a big plus in performance. to me using chines to reduce 'waterline' wide is a really good concept although the design its self wouldn't be easy to get right i imagine
they've got my brain buzzing
Lacey lane said;
Why is everyone making reference to "shortboard" surfing?
Its never going to be remotely on par with the type of consistent moves surfers are doing!
Personally, i think the Closest thing a stand up will be able to be parallel with is Progressive Longboard surfing. Go watch some Taylor Jensen footage (9' boards) or alby ross (old super 8 comp circa early malfunction) and start from there. Would like to hear people thoughts on this!!!
And while im on it, no ones making any design reference to stance on Stand up. When surfing on there SUP's Most Longboarders tend to stand 1-2 ' off the tail of there board while surfing,dropping there foot back for turns, but shortboarders are right on the tail all the time. (dont know what the hell kite boarders do)Surely rocker outline would want to be considerably different to compensate for stance?
Love the Hull concept and ill be lining up to Buy one. Ive been wanting to scale a downwinder down to 9'6 for a long time.
Bring on the container AA
With sup boards I see is a huge advancement from the early days of giant boards but then the advancements slowed way down as board design stopped advancing while we come to realize the wall of bulk... Sup surfing board bottoms are basically a conventional surfboard blown up with some modifications. Even thinned out, shortened sup board with whatever kind of rocker, outline, pinched rails whatever will be a big bulky thing in comparison to shortboards because we as stand up paddlers have to be able to stand on the thing. We will NEVER rip like a true shortboard because of the bulk, width issue.
That's OK though... Where WE CAN take this sup thing will be plenty enough for happiness amongst the people who want to rip, tear and lacerate... (I love those MR words!) I feel we truely CAN Rip, Tear and Lacerate. BUT and this is a big BUT... IMO opinion you will never see it on a conventional surfboard type bottomed board. It's crystal clear the sup surfing World is in about the same performance place now as last year and the year before. Don't be afraid to say it... It's true... Best the shapers and designers recognize that now so we can advance designs to get better quicker... Same design place = same level of surfing... The surfing talent has already arrived...
Here's another important thing to point out... The average person doing SUP surfing will not EVER destroy a section, throw buckets of spray, pump in the barrel or rip the bag out of a wave. In this case, a flat bottom, more conventional type board is MORE THAN ENOUGH to put a huge smile on their face... What I'm talking about is pure performance advancements... So maybe people need to ask themselves this... Do I even have the ability to do a true, radical turn, throw buckets and destroy sections if I had a board that is capable of it? If the answer is no then the conventional sup board is plenty awesome for them... Seriously... Most people don't even stand far enough back on the tail when they turn a sup board. If ALL the best shortboarders stand right on the tail on a 6' board then why would a sup board surfer try and turn a foot or more from the tail???? It always seems funny when people say a board doesn't turn well then you see them surf and realize it's not the board at all... They're standing to far forward... If you are not standing right on the tail you will never snap a huge, mind blowing turn! That's just a reality that people need to come to grips with...
With the Hull Rippers and similar designed boards things are gonna change in the High Performance area and more general purpose models can accomodate the average person but it won't make a person who never slammed into a lip all of a sudden become Ikaika Kalama or a Kai Lenny... What it will do is take the person who has the skill set to hit sections have an much easier time of it. Where we are already at now with the HR's is allowing us the quicker, snappier, tighter turns. The design allows us more speed along with the much quicker rail transitions... Not just speed. Speed is easy to come by... Other shapers will figure out variations of the "Raised Rail" theory and "Board within a Board" that we are doing. They will also start to realize the benefits...
Austin on a board with a planing bottom of 24" That's pretty narrow for a pretty big guy... Paddling stability of 29+ inches with surfing width of much less... His surfing has dramatically improved too...
Hull bottoms, beveled rails etc have been around for years and years. But always on surfboards or windsurfers. I've never seen them put together to work really well where it ever made a big design impact. Ben Aipa even went straight to a bevel rail with sup but didn't quite explore it fully to make an impact. The way we are designing them now with the blend of things and how they feel tells me we are heading in the right direction AND the fact that this concept fits well into sup board design because of the width issues. We are currently riding bottoms as narrow as 20" on some of our boards. Look at the photo's of me surfing and compare it to those of even a year ago... My surfing has improved in leaps and bounds. I'm 47 years old. My hey day is long gone but my surfing has become easily 10+ years younger within a matter of months on these boards... I'm so freakin stoked! If an old fart like me can rip a turn then what could the good guys do? Blow our minds that's what... Other shapers and designers need to get off what's old and start playing and thinking out of the box...
I could never consistently turn like this on a sup board until just months ago... Key word... CONSISTENT. The day before yesterday I was hitting turns way more quick and critical than these... One after another. These were shot on 1-27-11. One month later and I'm already looking at these pics thinking they look kinda weak... The board I'm riding now is allowing even more power and snap...
Regardless if the Hull Rippers or the concept becomes a popular thing or not doesn't really matter that much to me at this point... My level of surfing and where the designs are taking my surfing and others surfing matters to me most... Sure it would be nice to see financial benefit from it but I've been around long enough to see I'm never gonna get rich off this industry and especially the performance side of it... All I can hope for is we collectively push each others designs, performance levels etc and start surfing the way I know we can... I'll post more detail bottom stuff soon. Lets blow the f***in roof off this thing! Haha!! Aloha, BC
Oh, they come off the bottom is sweet too...
Oh, another thing... The bigger, longer models up to 14' are a whole nother awesome thing... More on that soon too...
Played around with a similar concept a couple of years ago, but didnt have the coin or time to keep going with it. you could feel the potential, but it needed some work
From Video ive seen, i reckon Blanes got all the pieces in place!!!
Dam it, got to save for a quiver now!!
Cool! You were already heading in the right direction for sure... Keep it going! Build it, surf it, build it, surf it, build it surf it... You'll find better rockers, bevel angles etc as you go... You'll also find the sweet width that you can stand on and how much you can take away off the bottom... There is nothing like the feel of hitting a turn in a steep section and the board doesn't dive or catch a rail... Go Lookie!
I'll post a pic of my current ride soon... It's pretty wild!
Great insight Blane thanks for sharing your thoughts on a forum.
Proof will be in the pudding, AA send some demos when you get them. Interesting concept.
Good on you Blane for sharing your design ideas like this - this thread has been a ripper!!!
Yeah Goatman! You know what I'm talkin about... Time to take this to mental heights! Haha! I wonder how many other shapers are out there that are in the same mindset? Shapers that can surf hard IMO will contribute the most because they will be the ones not satisfied with staying where we are... Some shapers can't surf all that well so it may take them longer waiting for feedback and to be pushed by the surfers...
Tom Carroll was in Hawaii and we surfed a lot together. I took him to secret spots so we could focus and test... We had some EPIC sessions in PERFECT waves just us and friends. We were blessed... (Tom, if you're reading this... Brother, WE SCORED!! Hahahaha!!!) We built a couple boards with some neat concepts he shared that was way off the norm he had done with some good shapers there... Blended his ideas and mine. I know there are some outward thinking shapers in AUS he has worked with that will help take things forward for sure... They are on the right track IMO.
Tom blasting my personal Hull I loaned him... I watched Tom do sup a lot and this particular board he was ripping harder than I ever saw him so far. On one particular day at a sick right he was going backside and impressing the crap out of us.... Late drops into the pit with his low gravity bottom turns up into the hook throwing huge fans. Here he goes left on a mediocre day but still pushing it... This is just the beginning of where we are going...
More eye candy from Aaron... I made this one for Aaron that was pushing the envelope at the time... The true planing bottom was around 20". It was his favorite board till a few days before the Sunset contest and he broke it in 3 pcs... He had to ride and older much wider version at Sunset that he wasn't used to at all... Oh well... Here's the one before it died a 3 piece death... Haha!
As shapers figure out directions away from conventional bottoms for performance surfing hard off the tail they will be able to feel the difference or their riders will feel the speed through turns... Again, speed is easy to obtain. The ability to turn on a dime and carry that speed throughout the turn and out of it is where it really matters...
Best thread I have read on this forum. Sick!
Why do people keep referring to shortboarding? The answer is that it is the highest performance surfing that can be done. If the performance side of the sport is to reach it's own potential does it not make sense to aim for the top? It may not be achievable but why chase an easily achievable goal?? I would be very surprised to hear that anybody would not like to improve their own performance. I know after a complete shocker this morning I would.
How many times have people seen a hollow right hander and said 'it looked just like Kirra?' or a left 'it looked like Pipe'. My point, that right was not Kirra but people sometimes use examples to express themselves. If people want to say their SUP feels like a short board it could just be them trying to convey something they are feeling. If the board they rode before that one was an 11' pig and they went to an HP 8'6 then yes, in comparison it would feel a lot more like a shortboard than the 11'er.
Anyway, thanks Blane. I hope you light a fire under the ass of people all over. Great work!
This is the best thread I've read for some time! Keep it going as it can only help us all take SUP surfing design to a new level. Thanks to all who have contributed.
be great if you could but up more movies so we can see how the boards actualy perform say from rail to rail and speed smoothness etc as they look great in the photos but that dosnt show the hole wave and if the boards looks smooth etc
Toms ripping the bag!!!
blane, do they take a bit of getting used to?
it looks like a bit of a different line or approach to me.
cheers
Im just curious, with this huge chine/ undertuck on the rails, how well would the rails engage on flatter, fatter waves? Would they still bite or just bounce out and lose the track of the rail?
What a great read hope this thread keeps going love how Blane keeps teasing us with more to come...
Stoked to see my hero TC ripping thats almost the trademark cutback. Any vid of TC would love to see.
BTW bought my a PSH 9-11 today its awesome! Thanks AA & Jason for the demo and great service!
Hey Blane.. Is this where you got the original idea for the hull bottom boards..
Actually where and why did you go down this path in design?
DJ
One of the really difficult problems with this design stuff is linking the terminology with the reality. sometimes the descriptions we use are not fully understood by the next person ,so I guess we need to try and be really clear with what we're trying to describe. Having said that there's one descriptive word that I recon we should be shooting for in design. Sensitivity. By sensitivity I mean fine control, where the board reacts from the smallest input. On most vids you see, and it used to be a lot worse surfers would be moving their back foot all over the board to try to get the thing on a rail. This is what happens when I surf , shifting my back foot from one rail to another and it gives me the ****s, It just makes for a really unbalanced feel, where I feel like the board is taking me for a surf rather than the opposite. It makes me feel like I'm not in control of the board. Why can't I have that feeling that I have when I'm on a 7 foot prone board where I can plant my back foot and then with a ****teenth of a millimeter pressure on my heel cut back then a bit of pressure on the big toe when I'm back where I want to be. Maybe it's my own crappy surfing(well not maybe!) but sometimes you see vids where guys are in perfect control and they're putting the board right where they want it without any of the rail stomping that I see too often . Watch Emosun(?) on a JL or Rahams or Goatman on customs, they seem to have sensitivity in their board designs that make the boards have a beautiful combination of looseness, acceleration, drive and sensitivity.
@ DJ...
I can't believe you posted our double hulled, solar powered sup race board... It was supposed to be a secret! There are some problems with it so it won't be out any time soon... Biggest draw back is the little people squishing between your toes... If we could get them to stay inside all would be good...
