CMC, Yeah ....but there are some things that are a given in the SUP design. For example, boards under 28ish wide are minimum for stand up and if you want a 8 footish board then that means you've got 4" thickness.... I'm talking generally here. Soooooo, what I think i'm saying is, trying to get a narrow pinny tail (17 "/ 1 foot from the tail)to work on an 8 foot /4 inch thick board is working in a paradigm that works for short boards but maybe not for these big boards with big volume.
Thanks. I'm interested in the 12'6" for flat water paddling and catching the odd wave and the occasional downwinder.
Hey AA,,,,any chance of seeing the flipside of that red board and also can you tell us a little about the paddles.
cheers
Just found a picture of a shortboard design that illustrates exactly what I was talking about above.
This board is 6'0. It is designed as a fish with a performance tail to allow it to turn in critical parts of the wave.
It would be perfect scaled to 8'6 x 28. It would function better as a SUP by increasing the flyer depth to reduce tail area further.
And that's what I mean by a 'continuous rocker' that allows you to surf more easily in the pocket. Definitely pull the tail in a whole lot more though!
Boards used to have a flat spot in the middle with nose rocker and tail rocker coming off it.. I think what Goatie means is a continuous curve.. or.. 'continuous rocker' .. Most continuous curve boards have no real flat spot.
DJ
Logman. I love these discussions, the best bit is there are no wrongs and rights. I wish we were sitting around a table with beer though.
I have never spoken about scaling up Mick Fannings 6'1 x 18 1/4. The result would be too low volumed.
Take for example the board above. Let's say it is 6'0 x 19 3/4. If you simply multiply the vital dimensions x 1.4 you end up with 8'4 x 28. If you took the nose and tail rocker of say 5 inches in the nose and 2 1/4 in the tail you end up with 7 inches nose rocker and 3.5 tail. They sound like they could be performance SUP dimensions to me.
I worked for a very respected shaper for a long time and he always taught me that if you take similar curves in rockers and outline they will react in a similar way in the same parts of the wave.
If the benchmark of performance is shortboarding then why would you not look at shortboard design if you intend to surf in a similar way?? I know for a fact that some popular SUP designs have been directly scaled up from shortboard fishes already. To say it holds no water at all is a little off the mark. Even that guy in Hawaii Jimmy Lewis said in his interview he just copied his sons shortboard.
The difference is we need to stand up to paddle and that takes allowances in the design, the challenge and what people are dealing with is making boards that perform while still being stable.
Can things be better? I hope so. Can Blane, Dale, DTM, DMS etc etc find better ways to blend performance with paddleability? Of course but to not look at what already works is like trying to invent a round thing that you can put on a car to let it go down the road. Hang on we have one already, it's called a wheel........
love this thread, the idea of SUB that paddle well and can still be surfed appeals to me, can't get into the short/low volume sub, can understand the attraction but its not my thing.
I want to get away from the main peaks and surf the uncrowded spots like river mouths and distant banks, they type of spots usually have shifty peaks that have to be chased so you need glide and speed to chase them down.
The trend towards short, low volume and heavy rocker seems like it puts you back into the zoo, chasing performance type waves with all the rest. Its getting out of the zoo that is one of the main attractions of SUP for me.
I can see the marketing appeal of these "shortboard" looking boards and on the right waves they do look unreal just don't know if adding another surfcraft to compete with an all ready strained supply of performance waves is a good idea. For me I would rather surf these type waves on a regular board and the rest on a SUB,there are heaps of great waves out there if you look and have the right gear.
So keep up the good work board makers and start to explore different types of SUB not just the blown up shortboards. Its not all about reproducing what has been done to death on short boards for the last 30 years. some look forward to surfing different waves in different ways.
love it NEV
sorry I was getting all conciliatory before, as I just got back from the pub after a steak and bottle of red with Loglady it seems to have made me all misty eyed and agreeable
Anyhow history has taught me that the influence of red wine tends to wear off over time and turns me back into the same old grumpy krunt that always looks back at me from the bath room mirror in the morning. OK so I'm a little bit tipsy but here's my idea of SUP nirvana : we get Blane Dale, DTM, dms, Hocker, etc,etc, in a Sup shoot out, where they all talk about they're boards ,then everybody elses boards before riding them and talking about the pro's and cons of each design.........then we eat more steak and red wine!!! deal?
sorry I was getting all conciliatory before, as I just got back from the pub after a steak and bottle of red with Loglady it seems to have made me all misty eyed and agreeable Anyhow history has taught me that the influence of red wine tends to wear off over time and turns me back into the same old grumpy krunt that always looks back at me from the bath room mirror in the morning. OK so I'm a little bit tipsy but here's my idea of SUP nirvana : we get Blane Dale, DTM, dms, Hocker, etc,etc, in a Sup shoot out, where they all talk about they're boards ,then everybody elses boards before riding them and talking about the pro's and cons of each design.........then we eat more steak and red wine!!! deal?
Goaty,
Anyone ever ridden the Eyre Peninsula? Bloody hell, it's mean.
Answer; Yes, but not at all the meanest spots.
Rumor has it someone had an eye ball ripped out and off in a wipeout last month!
Thats heavy
Ok, stand back!! Loglady has stuffed me full of more red wine, but this time the solids include mashed potato and bratwurst snags with lashings of gravy. So fully fueled and ready for anything(look out Loglady!!). Any how back to surfboard design, and by the way this is a subject I know F.A about, but that's not going to stop me. I was looking at some of the kite surf boards the other day. They struck me as tools totally suited for the job, an evolutionary change from sail boarding for sure, but the designs looked like they had come from a history of clean sheets of paper rather than carrying the baggage of the conservatism of the surf industry. sssssssssssssssssoooooooooooo I don't care if it looks like a shortboard,longboard,kiteboard,whateva , I just want to see boards and performance progress quickly free of the safety net that the short board design parameters provide. So ok if in twenty years time we all agree that the "scaled up " idea was the way to go, then great but lets not rule out designs cause they don't look "right". OK, I know this is controversial and the subject seems to rile some breezers but......... noses......There are two types of surfboards: those that can duck dive and those that can't. The boards that can duck dive need pointy noses, all the others, the ones that turn turtle, pop over the top, or bail or whateva, mals, mini mals, stand ups, don't. So why have them?
I don't mean to hijack but jeez, they must be making boards a lot stronger these days.
DJ
