One guy hassled me a while back. They still haven't found his body.
Kidding.
It also bugs me when you paddle out and say gidday and they just turn their heads. F**k them...
One challenge I have is we often have a different approach to the wave - but that could depend on the break. If we all caught the wave in the exact same position, and in the exact same way, sharing and following the etiquette would be a lot easier. But there have been so many times I have been out where the "surfers" hang in one spot and I might be a little further out (or sometimes closer to shore). I will see (especially long boarders) paddle for just about everything and often struggle to catch anything at all. Meanwhile I am trying to keep track of who has the next wave. So many guys who paddle for a wave but fail (suppers and surfers) don't count it as their turn. Or they take a sneaky look - turn, paddle a bit - and then quit. Does that count as their wave? But for me I take a few paddles to get really going. I am trying to watch the wave and the surfers to make sure I can catch it if I should. So when guys keep taking sneaky looks it is hard to know whether to paddle hard or not. (And plenty of SUPers take sneaky looks too.)
And when you add surf-skis to the mix, that just adds complication.
I agree that paddling out and sitting down sends a strong message that you are intending to take your turn. But when no one seems to be playing by the rules, including my fellow SUPers, it can quickly turn into a feeding frenzy...
In the worst cases an aggro person in the surf is usually and aggro person in their car, at work, with their girl friend, you get the picture. I know this isn't always the case as everybody no matter how chilled you are can get to an angry level if pushed. I'm no different. Just as in a car, there's often no point in talking it out with these people as they just won't see your point.
On more than one occasion Iv'e been abused for things I know I haven't done. I was just in their wrong spot at the time.
On a race track, you don't take out your run around when your not up to speed, so to say.
Go through the learning kerb, progress and have fun.
You just won't make it through life without the odd dickhead and abuse. Just be a better person.
I've been supping for nearly 3 years now and with a background as a surfer, I do see both sides of the discussion. I sup full time now and gave my surfboards away like a year ago and although I have been reading this forum for a couple of years, I've been waiting for this discussion to resurface before I added my 2 cents..
There are a few key issues I have experienced.
When the surf is small to medium you will always see beginner suppers out trying to get a wave and unfortunately the perspective held by most surfers is bang on. Sups are a very dangerous piece of equipment especially when there is a lack of "surf sense" and general wave knowledge being displayed by beginners. When I see a beginner on a sup I always paddle away and put at least a bank or two between us.
When waves are medium and especially in the larger scale, you will see the more advanced sup riders out looking for a wave. When I first started surfing over 20 years ago way before sups where even available, surfers used to get the ****s with mal riders and goat boats who because of their speed on the water could sit wider and deeper and wait for the bombs. Absolutely fair enough to get the ****s with that. I was one of those surfers.
I sup with some pretty capable riders and only a few of them have a genuine surfing background and I have been often embarrassed how they behave on a crowded break. It's at its worse when you get a pack of suppers who all know each other and just move in to dominate a break.
What's my solution?
If there is another option down the beach or point where there is no crowd and even if it's not pitching as good as the main break, I'll always drift off and find my own spot away from both sups and surfers. Always.
When it is pumping the number of sups drop off and often I have been the only sup out but my choices for another bank are reduced especially when surfing heavy SEQ beachies that can be big death close outs.
So then I don't have a choice but to get in the line up with the local surfers on a bank that is working but there are a couple of rules I always obey by.
Firstly I will never take off on a wave if there is anyone inside me paddling out or caught inside on the bank. Never. This is where I see surfers getting the most frustrated. Looking at a sup taking a big drop and leaning into a bottom turn is a daunting sight and if it goes wrong, things can get dangerous real quick.
In that case I am on full alert and hyper-vigilant and sit just a bit wide and deep and wait my turn. What I have found is that by doing this (even in smaller waves) more often than not when I get my chance and I'm in the clear, I jag some absolute crackers. When the line up see that I am being vigilant (I make eye contact with everyone and look alert), waiting my turn, not putting any of them in any danger and actually making the drop and fly down the line on a few crackers, the whole mood changes and I've even had the odd hoot.
Try and surf south straddie on a sup when it's pumping and not be on your best behavior and totally vigilant. 2 things will happen. You'll most likely get openly abused and because of the vibe in the water, you won't be on your game and you'll get absolutely worked.
So my message is not to the grumpy surfers out there, it's to any suppers who share the waves with ANYONE. We ride a serious piece of equipment that can be genuinely dangerous so we all need to be vigilant with regards to the safety of all others around us. Both sups and surfers.
Our equipment also allows us to catch way more waves so we have to be mindful of not being greedy, especially when we are in a group of mates supping.
From some of the comments in this forum it is obvious that there is a fair percentage of sup riders who really don't get any of this and for sure many of them would be the main offenders that have given sup riders this negative reputation. When I have brought this topic even with my mates who sup but don't have a surfing background they very rarely get it and often come back at me with the same tone as some of the members of this forum.
We are the new kids on the block and sure some of the surfing community have made their minds up about sups and they won't change their mind. But look how quick it happened. Pretty much overnight sups were everywhere and many times being ridden by beginners among seasoned surfers who grew up there and were taught to surf there by their Dad's.
Check you the solution at many breaks in Hawaii. No sups allowed at all. How long will it take before that happens at breaks here if something doesn't change?
One of the sad things for me however is that by running my solution of steering away from busy spots, there are a bunch of breaks I just have never surfed on a sup that I used to surf on a surfboard and they are some of the best breaks in the world. Burleigh point, Currumbin (tried a couple of time but way too busy with sups), super bank, Alex even Noosa. I've been much happier surfing back beaches and in the long run I reckon it's made me a better paddle surfer. For sure.
I just moved to Vic and I can't wait to explore this coast line. Way, way more opportunities to find uncrowded spots.
Thanks PSHolden. You make a lot of sense. It seems to go against the freedom of surfing to have to be so conscious in the surf, but with the endless numbers of people on the planet we have to lose our freedoms. I think my approach, which mirrors yours is ok. Although when the big swells come I do stay away. The second day I spoke to Wazza I did ask him whether I had been respectful the previous day and he did say yes.
I hope over time everyone can get along. For guys like me who were unable to prone surf due to back problems, sup surfing is a gift.
PS Holden , you nailed it mate
I agree 100%
Surfed today in the boat channel away from all the surfers
Had some absolute monsters coming through and was easy to get set , line up and take off
I also got smashed a few times being caught inside
The last half an hour I had a surf school instructor come over in their boat and let all the beginners watch and learn
I got a few hoots as well , some respect
Just another day on the water
Enjoy and be respectful
Select to expand quotepmorgan1974 said..
Whether you like it or not a big craft like a SUP in a crowded line up will never be received with warmth. Tight crowds and SUP's don't play well together. No matter how good you think you are. Just saying.
I think it is more the different behavior that is unsettling to surfers rather than the size. It is harder for surfers to anticipate what we are going to do - since they are not used to it -, and so it is quite a stress factor. And the more people on the spot, the less they can be aware of how we move, thus more stress. And if a Wazza had a bad day, he will be vocal about it. So yes, Tight crowds and SUP's don't play well together.
It was the same on the water between sailboards and kite, who had very different trajectories. After some years, things settled down, as people get used to each other.
PSHolden, very nice post by the way, it express quite well what I try to do on the water. And like Bowerboy, I surfed (sparsely) for 30 years, but a hip problem made prone surfing impossible for me. SUPing has brought back my youth, and in exchange for this gift I gladly can go to the weaker breaks...
PSHolden has it.
I do exactly the same.
When i first started out on a 10'10" x 33" oil tanker, I used to venture out to the point break at our local. I could feel (and hear) the hatred, even though I tried really hard to do the right thing.
As I've improved and bought boards more suited to beach breaks, I have given myself the freedom to use the whole 5km of my local. As a bank becomes crowded, i just move on to the next.
My kids prone surf the point, and so do their mates. I'm not out to hurt anyone or wreck their day so I leave them to it.
I believe I've made more friends and earnt more people's respect from doing so as well. 
Talk about timing, was thinking this very same thing on the weekend, even when I am doing the righty I am still get the stink eye and the bad vibe etc...fck em I reckon.
I am having fun trying out a new craft which in my opinion is the awesome thing about surfing in general, there would not be a shortboard at all if people had not tried different things so to criticize someone on a different board is just backwards, people with that attitude are not worth the effort.
From a safety point of view I totally understand the apprehension but this is where a bit of common sense comes into play, if there is a bloke on a SUP on a bank on his own, don't paddle up to him or next to him and expect him to move cos you have turned up, that's your choice. I wouldn't paddle up to a bloke prone surfing and stand next to him??
I am still a beginner and as such have been seeking solitude so I dont hurt anyone and to be honest I am enjoying it that way, when it works out well I get waves to myself and can really tune into how to go about it without worrying about others around me. Doesn't bother me if it is not the best peak on the beach. I have always rated waves with less crowd higher than crowded waves that are better.
I ride all sorts of boards so I get some of the frustrations as I have had them before, the turning point for me was when I went and had a go on the different boards and realized how fun being able to change and try different craft.
Select to expand quotepmorgan1974 said..E T said..
Pay the dues, learn the skills, earn your place. Piss off out of the surf to flat-water if you are dangerous.
ET.
I haven't weighed in on this forum in ages, but ET nailed it. The only i would add is this. Whether you like it or not a big craft like a SUP in a crowded line up will never be received with warmth. Tight crowds and SUP's don't play well together. No matter how good you think you are. Just saying.
Sure! ET nailed it and extra people in a crowd would be no welcome as Morgan said .
But I hate SUP, long boarders and waveskies too...because most of those boards are oversized and the first functionality of their dims is to hog the waves and not to really surfing the curl staying as closest of it like surfing can be a nice sport and fun one.
I'm 62 and still late take off on 6'6" SUP despite of fixed shoulder's joint but I'm bored to be copped by surfing clones like Wazza because I'm holding a paddle... So I'm thinking to get a bigger board to take off earlier and far away out from other ones whatever they standing on.
I've just returned from PNG on a surfing trip booked through World Surfaris. I had no issue with going on the trip being the only SUP. There were 16 proners on the trip and after the first session they realised that I could handle myself and I even got a few people coming up and asking questions about my background. On another note I have had SUP rage at different breaks from Ulladulla to Port Macquarie. All not justified. The best way to sought a bully is head on. I'm only small but I refuse to take any **. I'd rather stand up for myself then let them think that they have got the better of me. I will however move away to diffuse the situation if required. Some breaks I don't bother with because of the agro. The bottom line is you can never win an argument with an idiot so don't try.
Select to expand quotepsholden said..
I've been supping for nearly 3 years now and with a background as a surfer, I do see both sides of the discussion. I sup full time now and gave my surfboards away like a year ago and although I have been reading this forum for a couple of years, I've been waiting for this discussion to resurface before I added my 2 cents..
There are a few key issues I have experienced.
When the surf is small to medium you will always see beginner suppers out trying to get a wave and unfortunately the perspective held by most surfers is bang on. Sups are a very dangerous piece of equipment especially when there is a lack of "surf sense" and general wave knowledge being displayed by beginners. When I see a beginner on a sup I always paddle away and put at least a bank or two between us.
When waves are medium and especially in the larger scale, you will see the more advanced sup riders out looking for a wave. When I first started surfing over 20 years ago way before sups where even available, surfers used to get the ****s with mal riders and goat boats who because of their speed on the water could sit wider and deeper and wait for the bombs. Absolutely fair enough to get the ****s with that. I was one of those surfers.
I sup with some pretty capable riders and only a few of them have a genuine surfing background and I have been often embarrassed how they behave on a crowded break. It's at its worse when you get a pack of suppers who all know each other and just move in to dominate a break.
What's my solution?
If there is another option down the beach or point where there is no crowd and even if it's not pitching as good as the main break, I'll always drift off and find my own spot away from both sups and surfers. Always.
When it is pumping the number of sups drop off and often I have been the only sup out but my choices for another bank are reduced especially when surfing heavy SEQ beachies that can be big death close outs.
So then I don't have a choice but to get in the line up with the local surfers on a bank that is working but there are a couple of rules I always obey by.
Firstly I will never take off on a wave if there is anyone inside me paddling out or caught inside on the bank. Never. This is where I see surfers getting the most frustrated. Looking at a sup taking a big drop and leaning into a bottom turn is a daunting sight and if it goes wrong, things can get dangerous real quick.
In that case I am on full alert and hyper-vigilant and sit just a bit wide and deep and wait my turn. What I have found is that by doing this (even in smaller waves) more often than not when I get my chance and I'm in the clear, I jag some absolute crackers. When the line up see that I am being vigilant (I make eye contact with everyone and look alert), waiting my turn, not putting any of them in any danger and actually making the drop and fly down the line on a few crackers, the whole mood changes and I've even had the odd hoot.
Try and surf south straddie on a sup when it's pumping and not be on your best behavior and totally vigilant. 2 things will happen. You'll most likely get openly abused and because of the vibe in the water, you won't be on your game and you'll get absolutely worked.
So my message is not to the grumpy surfers out there, it's to any suppers who share the waves with ANYONE. We ride a serious piece of equipment that can be genuinely dangerous so we all need to be vigilant with regards to the safety of all others around us. Both sups and surfers.
Our equipment also allows us to catch way more waves so we have to be mindful of not being greedy, especially when we are in a group of mates supping.
From some of the comments in this forum it is obvious that there is a fair percentage of sup riders who really don't get any of this and for sure many of them would be the main offenders that have given sup riders this negative reputation. When I have brought this topic even with my mates who sup but don't have a surfing background they very rarely get it and often come back at me with the same tone as some of the members of this forum.
We are the new kids on the block and sure some of the surfing community have made their minds up about sups and they won't change their mind. But look how quick it happened. Pretty much overnight sups were everywhere and many times being ridden by beginners among seasoned surfers who grew up there and were taught to surf there by their Dad's.
Check you the solution at many breaks in Hawaii. No sups allowed at all. How long will it take before that happens at breaks here if something doesn't change?
One of the sad things for me however is that by running my solution of steering away from busy spots, there are a bunch of breaks I just have never surfed on a sup that I used to surf on a surfboard and they are some of the best breaks in the world. Burleigh point, Currumbin (tried a couple of time but way too busy with sups), super bank, Alex even Noosa. I've been much happier surfing back beaches and in the long run I reckon it's made me a better paddle surfer. For sure.
I just moved to Vic and I can't wait to explore this coast line. Way, way more opportunities to find uncrowded spots.
Good advise . You will enjoy it here ,plenty of great waves. Might see you out ,have fun .
Psholden nailed it. 40 years ago it wasn't a problem. There are only so many surf breaks on earth and when they're lined up ... Us fellas on SUPs can start out further, go longer and don't need as good quality waves as surfers do, I can get most waves I paddle for out wide and away from the pressure of the lineup. I don't have any trouble with surfers because they wouldn't be bothered with the crap that I'm happy to ride.
I personally have never heard any abuse directed at me. I always try and avoid crowded breaks as many here have been writing
What pisses me of the most but is when you steer clear of the crowds down the beach. You start catching some waves and having fun. Next thing you know you have half a dozen prone surfers paddle down from the other break cause you catch a heap of waves and they start thinking it must be better where you are and then crowd your area. Bit frustrating. They don't seem to understand you can catch waves easier that a normal surfer can
I have been paddlesurfing for years and still do a fair bit of short boarding and you guys should not be suprised that the surfers get annoyed because there are too many paddleboarders being greedy and unsafe out there. I got hit by a super on my short board once and I can tell you its not a nice experience. The mal riders can be a pain is the ass too. If everyone shows a bit of respect to each other off the bat then a lot of issues can be avoided but that includes the paddleboarders. Then it doesnt matter what surf craft you are on!
^^^^^^^^ It does make you feel like a shepard when the little sheep follow.
And what is it with guys who can clearly see you have the momentum and about to take the drop, that they turn virtually on your line, or paddle to or across your line and start to go right in front. So then you jump off your board right beside them so as to do no harm, you blow the wave for yourself and them. While this doesn't happen too often it is enough to make me think that next time I'll just keep going straight over the top. Nobody does it when I'm prone surfing on the surf board, so how do they think its ok to do it when I'm on the sup?
I'm running for the senate and one of my policy is to build a fence inthawater to divide different type of watercraft so we can live in peace and happy for n-ever. Vote for a change and let's make inthawater great again!
Select to expand quotebobajob said..
And what is it with guys who can clearly see you have the momentum and about to take the drop, that they turn virtually on your line, or paddle to or across your line and start to go right in front. So then you jump off your board right beside them so as to do no harm, you blow the wave for yourself and them. While this doesn't happen too often it is enough to make me think that next time I'll just keep going straight over the top. Nobody does it when I'm prone surfing on the surf board, so how do they think its ok to do it when I'm on the sup?
It's a regular practice among the grumpy ol' mal riders at a couple of the 'longboard' breaks down my way.
I wonder what is going to happen when people start foiling at some of these breaks!
In 20-odd years of surfing, I don't think I've ever seen anyone get yelled at by mistake, regardless of the craft they ride.
This topic is discussed on here every couple of weeks in one way or another.
The message is always the same. Learn the rules, pay your dues, don't be a dick.
Select to expand quoteLateStarter said..
In 20-odd years of surfing, I don't think I've ever seen anyone get yelled at by mistake, regardless of the craft they ride.
This topic is discussed on here every couple of weeks in one way or another.
The message is always the same. Learn the rules, pay your dues, don't be a dick.
Hmmmm.....if it was that simple, can North Korea and few other nutter countries adopt the same policy?
Select to expand quoteMacaha said..
Bowerboy next time you in QLD paddle out at snapper and embrace the difference.
Been there and done that a fews times. The Angry Snapper locals make the angry Manly locals look like pussy cats ( which they are):-)
I'm from Omaha Beach in NZ, I had my tires let down and dog poo with a note put on my bonnet, because apparently the longboarders crew were upset with me being a SUPer and not local - I've lived there full time for 10 years and holidayed there for the last 20!
I've also had my ute stolen - the same guys are suspected in being the ones that took it but no proof - Omaha Beach is very tribal, we have even had the National SUP Champs held there 2 years in a row which did not go down well with the longboarders, was funny to see.
Imagine when we start foiling - then everyone will hate us including SUPs.
You know what really cuts down on the harassment in the line-up?
Showing up for beach clean-ups.
Seriously, establishing yourself in the community makes establishing yourself in the line-up so much easier.
Select to expand quotecantSUPenough said..
One guy hassled me a while back. They still haven't found his body.
Kidding.
It also bugs me when you paddle out and say gidday and they just turn their heads. F**k them...
One challenge I have is we often have a different approach to the wave - but that could depend on the break. If we all caught the wave in the exact same position, and in the exact same way, sharing and following the etiquette would be a lot easier. But there have been so many times I have been out where the "surfers" hang in one spot and I might be a little further out (or sometimes closer to shore). I will see (especially long boarders) paddle for just about everything and often struggle to catch anything at all. Meanwhile I am trying to keep track of who has the next wave. So many guys who paddle for a wave but fail (suppers and surfers) don't count it as their turn. Or they take a sneaky look - turn, paddle a bit - and then quit. Does that count as their wave? But for me I take a few paddles to get really going. I am trying to watch the wave and the surfers to make sure I can catch it if I should. So when guys keep taking sneaky looks it is hard to know whether to paddle hard or not. (And plenty of SUPers take sneaky looks too.)
And when you add surf-skis to the mix, that just adds complication.
I agree that paddling out and sitting down sends a strong message that you are intending to take your turn. But when no one seems to be playing by the rules, including my fellow SUPers, it can quickly turn into a feeding frenzy...
Found myself Sunday morning at an almost secret giz surf location......the only other person out was a short boarder who is my worst surf enemy.....and hates sups......and if you say "good morning".....you get "the grunt".
We came to an agreement as I could have starved him from the set waves.......we would alternate taking the best wave of each set. Still don't like him though.......and i know sup people who would steal all of his waves without a second thought :)
don't tell "red thumb".......he is a sensitive soul......but once promised to send the point of my PSH 12'6 into his head if he dropped in on me again
I think SUP's are a good board to have in the quiver for when its tiny or flat. So you can still get out & have a bit of fun on the water. I ride short boards & longboards about equally & dust off the SUP in summer to ride some ankle to knee high waves. For me they're a good board to have in your quiver.....however I do not think they are a good board in bigger waves & yes they are very dangerous in crowded conditions no matter how good you think you are. Surfing background or not.
If I get out on the SUP & there are a few people out I tend to end up surf coaching & wave spotting. Then grabbing left over waves or wide ones everyone is going to be too deep for. But there is usually no one else out on account of it being flat in everyone elses eyes.
I don't understand young people or people without some kind of injury preventing them from riding surf craft offering much greater performance opting to ride SUP's in all conditions. Dedicating themselves to this one board type. They might have a greater wave count, but sacrifice performance...the best thing about riding a SUP is how good a surfboard of longboard feels when you get off it.
Why the animosity towards SUP's
a lot of people see it as cheating. SUP's can spot waves much sooner, get into a position of priority sooner & gain momentum earlier. Far too many take advantage of this & it sux seeing a SUP simply trimming across one of the waves of the day. I do have a lot of friends who ride SUP's & a lot of them are pretty good about not hogging waves. Things were pretty bad 5 or 6 years ago when the infestation began. But it does seem to have chilled at my local. Most of the SUP's will go & surf a certain section of reef. Longboarders on another & shortboarders on another. And if SUP's do come over to one of the other spots, if they exercise some etiquette there's no problems. You don't need to catch sets on a SUP, you can have a great time going for waves no one else would have otherwise caught. The best SUP rider I know does this, he catches wave after wave after wave. But no one gives a fark, coz they were waves no one else was gonna catch. He will often even stop paddling for a wave when he see's another person is likely to catch it.
I imagine Manly is very very different to my local being smack bang in the city. But if you utilize the strengths of the SUP, like their ability to ride small waves or waves with sectioning fat sections other boards won't glide through you can have heaps of fun...also if your able. Why not add another board to your quiver which is not a SUP to use on days suited to other surf craft. SUP's suck in wind unless your downwinding & there is usually a lot less crowd. They're also pretty hard to get out the back in bigger days with no channel or a point to paddle wide. The learning curve is a bit steeper, but well worth it
Personally I don't think it's a SUP thing at all.
Surfers are generally having a crack at SUP riders because they are probably having a bad surf due to the line up being so fricken crowded
You talk about Manly, surfing and the weekend.
That in itself is a recipe for disaster.
Only the entire stretch your probably lucky to have 2m of water to yourself.
People with all levels of ability with every right to be out there like the next person. Everyone is out there. Bower talks about the new generation of self entitled new locals in their multi million dollar homes that's better than the previous and your adding that attitude to the line up.
Not to mention the surf school, Multiple backpackers. Board hire shops. The influx of Westys on the weekend.
You ask everyone why they surf and it's always "it's fun"
But I hate to break it to you. Surfing on the weekend on the Northern Beaches of Sydney is a F..... up
No fun at all.
Select to expand quoteTimKay said..
Personally I don't think it's a SUP thing at all.
Surfers are generally having a crack at SUP riders because they are probably having a bad surf due to the line up being so fricken crowded
You talk about Manly, surfing and the weekend.
That in itself is a recipe for disaster.
Only the entire stretch your probably lucky to have 2m of water to yourself.
People with all levels of ability with every right to be out there like the next person. Everyone is out there. Bower talks about the new generation of self entitled new locals in their multi million dollar homes that's better than the previous and your adding that attitude to the line up.
Not to mention the surf school, Multiple backpackers. Board hire shops. The influx of Westys on the weekend.
You ask everyone why they surf and it's always "it's fun"
But I hate to break it to you. Surfing on the weekend on the Northern Beaches of Sydney is a F..... up
No fun at all.
You're right about the crowds. By way of an example, this past Saturday morning I wanted to go for a surf on my sup. I started at Manly, and having driven around for 10 minutes, couldn't find a park. So I drove up to Long Reef, where there were about 50 people crammed into a 100m stretch of the beach. Some alright waves, but nothing amazing.
The funny part however was that precisely a week before that, I had been out at pipeline (on my shortboard). It was me and 4 others in the water of probably the most well-known surf break in the world. Only 4 ft waves but still better than the waves in Sydney on Saturday morning
