Select to expand quotesaltyheaven said..
See you later mate. I'd rather not have anything to do with you.
Ok ,most children in the wrong do that
Anyways maaate,next time you want to ride your high horse , make sure your head is not looking at its arse
Have a broccochino,you will feel better for it 
If your into understanding the shaping process on a deeper level then this is a pretty great resource... Pretty dry but also very thorough... Its a 4 part series if your into it.
surfsplendorpodcast.com/238-on-boards-with-dave-parmenter-part-one/
Select to expand quotechrispy said..saltyheaven said..chrispy said..
Because I have been riding mid lengths for a while , a bit longer then a few of the so called experts on here
I love them that's why I open it...happy 
Good! How about joining in with something constructive then?
Nice edit of your post kook
Constructive ,what like you calling Lacey out for his opinion ....too funny dude 
Opinions were outlawed on here at the same time as humour.
So I'll post someone else's.
What do you think about Displacement Hulls?
On a hull when you are on your knees, it's okay to grab the rail and pull the sucker around. But when you are standing up and your center of gravity is higher, it's harder to control a hull. If you watch Jimmy Gamboa in One California Day on a hull, the poor guy is struggling to make the waves and can barely keep up with the lip. This is because it is underpowered and gutless. I'll put a slight rounded curve on some boards, but I will never use a hull design - they never work for a stand up surfer. The hull shape is a very slow shape - it isn't crisp and they don't plane very high. I've never really embraced the whole hull concept. I fooled around with it and never really got with it. My friends made straight copies of it - Ted Spencer, Russell Hughes, Chris Brock, Paul Witzig - they all just copied George's hull and they put up with its problems.Hulls are difficult to ride, but they do give you an occasional flash of brilliance because of their neutrality. At a certain point, after going through a series of arcs, you can lay it on that neutral rail and it won't suck you under. Today's modern surfboard rails and bottoms are so far advanced from the Greenough hull that it is just a retro dream. The hull worked when the surf was uncrowded and you could lock or thread a line down a long point break, by the sixth or eighth turn you could wind up bags of speed with this beautiful neutral rail. At that point you could put it into an extreme position upside down, briefly - that's when they shine. After 1969, you needed a flat bottom and a pivotal back foot so you could maneuver around people and break your power line. By mid '69 I wanted nothing to do with hulls. I still don't like them. Dreamy, but impractical.
Good article if you want to read the rest.
www.liquidsaltmag.com/bobmctavishinterview
This one was posted when this topics was done here before.
March 2, 2012
Several years ago an article in Surfer's Journal regenerated interest in the style of surfboard described as "hulls" that I have made since their first popularity in the late 1960's through the 1980's. Many surfers have again found these designs to be an enjoyable way to ride waves. Here are my original thoughts after this new exposure:
"Lately there have been many inquiries into the "hull" style of surfboards that I build. The name "hull" is in my opinion a misnomer. It is true that the original designs from which the contempory boards evoled were more "hull" like. They were more extreme in bottom configuration, length, and many other design elements.
The first boards we made using the extreme Greenough concept as our model were difficult to ride and needed the right kind of power to make them "go". We did not always have the ideal waves, particularly during the Southern California summers.
To accommodate the conditions, the boards increased in length and width (planing area), the rocker was modified, and the "hull" was softened, particularly in the front entry portion of the board. This enabled us to trim more forward and plane out in waves with very little power, particularly the small "cobblestone" point surf available.
There were certainly days when the full on forward hull designs would work to their potential and some of those days have been documented, but the huge percentage of waves available were not ideal for the very forward convex hull designs.
I in particular only surfed Malibu, Little Dume ( with rare success), California Street, Pitas Point, Rincon and Cojo on the Hollister Ranch. These are rare group of not perfect but very good lined up right point break or point breaks like waves. Waves that have a continuity in shape, tension, where the power exists and the average size.
The boards that I like to call "modified transitional displacement hulls" evolved to ride these waves. I understand that there are surf spots throughout the planet that have elements of these waves and these designs will certainly work at some level at many of these breaks.
It is these wave where the "point break" outline on the website evolved. This was the shape I rode with subtle variations and incremental changes in length. The last ones which seemed the most efficient and applicable in most condition were in the 7' to 7'1" range. I had many other customers who developed their own unique style and we modified the templates to fit. There were literally a hundred different templates and the designs varied in many aspects: shorter, longer, wider, narrower, thinner, thicker etc.
My boards were sometime stringerless to give the ride more feeling in very small waist to head high surf; the typical size of a "swell" in the Southern California area. Not till I visited Hawaii in 1989 did I have to adapt the design to the local condtions. With these modifications I now had a board that worked fine in larger California surf. The Hawaii plan shape was a result of that visit.
Many templates were developed with design changes in rocker and bottom contour to accomodate customers who surfed beach breaks, short pocket reef breaks, surfed backside etc. The outlines on my website show only a few of these designs that became somewhat popular during the era and covered more types of surf than the "point breaker"
I am now seeing feedback, particularly on the Swaylocks forum website (swaylocks.com) of disgruntled surfers who have tried some versions of these designs and do not like the ride.
This was very true during their development in the early 1970"s. Individuals often tried the wrong outline at the wrong spot with the wrong expectations and gave up on the design, going back to the flat bottom, low railed, tail fin anchored "thrusters" etc that could be pivoted off the tail and maneuvered at will.
To each his own of course but my complaint is that they do not understand that these boards are not for the onlooker. It is not meant to be a visual experience. It is for the "feel" of these board. Not that visual observation of the ride cannot be enjoyed. To me it is quite beautiful the way they "fit" to the wave and become part of it.
This of course is not mainstream and it never has been. During the 1970' through the 1980"s only about 10% of the boards I made were these designs. I made everything within reason and some not so reasonable. Some have turned up and are in the photo section of this website.
Surfing has become very diverse over the last several years with interest in longboards of all sizes, the fish design etc.
Just as many have found the "longboard" experience of glide and trim being very rewarding so others have found that going through the water and attaching themselves to the wave in a unique way on one of these craft is indeed rewarding.
There are many approaches to riding a wave. Many are now engaged in the stand up, paddle in approach and as with all approaches it can be dreadful in the wrong hands with the wrong attitude.
With this in mind, before you pursue this design, give some thought to what you want from the experience and the waves that you will be riding. Talk to others that have some experience with these boards and don't jump into one because there was an article in a surfing publication.
Mahalo for your time!
Aloha! Greg
Great shares SP...
Look, I agree that Hulls are not for most and being the sh1te surfer i am I will most likely fail... However... I just love a challenge, its all about fun really 
The Vouch Spoon I surfed was basically a modified displacement hull, as all of the are... and whilst we didnt fall in love there were elements of it I LOVED... and when a great surfer was on it (TK from here) he absolutely killed it/loved it... and there's certainly a group of guys/gals, mostly older from what I can see, that just love em... So i'm keen to give it a go... with a bit more foam for my....
"To each his own of course but my complaint is that they do not understand that these boards are not for the onlooker. It is not meant to be a visual experience. It is for the "feel" of these board. Not that visual observation of the ride cannot be enjoyed. To me it is quite beautiful the way they "fit" to the wave and become part of it."
Anyways, it's all about trying something different and having some real variety in the quiver... I certainly don't see it as my daily driver but i'm open to trying most things...
But seems I need some advise on how to become this hipster thing everyone ditching on if I am going to ride one, so can anyone give me some specifics so I can fit the mould 
Just to be clear: It was the pejorative tone of Lacey's original comment that I kicked against rather that any expressed opinion. Apologies to Lacey if this was misunderstood.
Back to Hulls: A lot of people have no interest and just see someone who looks like they can't surf very well, some of us are intrigued and interested, see something in those turns and lines that is appealing and want to get involved. Some people like the connection with a past era, some people couldn't care less about what's been before. Some surf to impress others or gain some kind of standing in the crew, some do it for entirely personal reasons and care not the slightest how it looks, some even actively try to be reactive to the norm and do something different for the sake of it.
What does it matter in the slightest? As long as someone isn't taking more than their share, and this happens just as surely with shortboarders as with longboarders, why is it that board choice or style or comparative skill level begets such acrimony?
Select to expand quotesaltyheaven said..
Just to be clear: It was the pejorative tone of Lacey's original comment that I kicked against rather that any expressed opinion. Apologies to Lacey if this was misunderstood.
Dear Salty,
I've known Lacey for over 35 years,one thing he is not and thats a smart arse
Although he may try to be one he is not Lacey is a man of few words, shoots from the hips, straight talker,gets to the point hard and fast.
He has ridden/owned every type of board you could imagine from short mid fish long hulls sups surf flatwater race boards,he has worked with some very highly regarded shapers who I wont mention,designed boards with many.I think you have well and truely misunderstood his comments.
Its ok its a forum everyone has a right to value add some people will agree others may not thats what its all about.I haven't commented in this thread because I know jack about these boards you guys are talking about but its interesting reading.
Anyway I guess Lacey owes me a coffee now haha
Some pro's and cons of the Liddle DM... and shapers profile vid...
Scott BTW is not really how I pictured these "Hipsters"
Does also acknowledge that Dane is clearly not the right match for the board, i'd LOVE to see Devon or Joel on one...
Interesting that he preferred it to Lizzy though as well.
stabmag.com/stabcinema/dane-reynolds-scott-anderson-greg-liddle-the-electric-acid-surfboard-test/
Select to expand quoteMacaha said..saltyheaven said..
Just to be clear: It was the pejorative tone of Lacey's original comment that I kicked against rather that any expressed opinion. Apologies to Lacey if this was misunderstood.
Dear Salty,
I've known Lacey for over 35 years,one thing he is not and thats a smart arse Although he may try to be one he is not Lacey is a man of few words, shoots from the hips, straight talker,gets to the point hard and fast.
He has ridden/owned every type of board you could imagine from short mid fish long hulls sups surf flatwater race boards,he has worked with some very highly regarded shapers who I wont mention,designed boards with many.I think you have well and truely misunderstood his comments.
Its ok its a forum everyone has a right to value add some people will agree others may not thats what its all about.I haven't commented in this thread because I know jack about these boards you guys are talking about but its interesting reading.
Anyway I guess Lacey owes me a coffee now haha
I bet Pup told ya to say that,Geez
Select to expand quoteAndyrooMac said..
Some pro's and cons of the Liddle DM... and shapers profile vid...
Scott BTW is not really how I pictured these "Hipsters"
Does also acknowledge that Dane is clearly not the right match for the board, i'd LOVE to see Devon or Joel on one...
Interesting that he preferred it to Lizzy though as well.
stabmag.com/stabcinema/dane-reynolds-scott-anderson-greg-liddle-the-electric-acid-surfboard-test/
I'd bet Dane on the wrong board still surfs it better then 99% of the population could.
The curiosity factor would get me on a perfect lined up point but as daily driver think they seem limited. Think I'll always be scarred by Jimmy gamboa struggling in One California day. Kinda wish id taken the vouch for a wave when before sending down to you.
Select to expand quoteSP said..AndyrooMac said..
Some pro's and cons of the Liddle DM... and shapers profile vid...
Scott BTW is not really how I pictured these "Hipsters"
Does also acknowledge that Dane is clearly not the right match for the board, i'd LOVE to see Devon or Joel on one...
Interesting that he preferred it to Lizzy though as well.
stabmag.com/stabcinema/dane-reynolds-scott-anderson-greg-liddle-the-electric-acid-surfboard-test/
I'd bet Dane on the wrong board still surfs it better then 99% of the population could.
The curiosity factor would get me on a perfect lined up point but as daily driver think they seem limited. Think I'll always be scarred by Jimmy gamboa struggling in One California day. Kinda wish id taken the vouch for a wave when before sending down to you.
Totally Agree dude, Dane is a freak on anything... Mann I reckon they miss having a personality and raw talent like him on the World Tour...
And yeah, Lizzy is my DD, this ones for curiosity and to try and learn something different... I mean really, a lot of us have big quivers but you tend to surf 2 boards 80% of the time... so nothing wrong with adding some variety
And yeah, I think I told you to take her for a spin... TK was unreal on it on the points... Just too small for me
Every single surfer who goes to that beach Knost was surfing at should take a big black plastic garbage bag and fill it full of rubbish and take it somewhere to be disposed of properly.
Free as a bird surfers like Knost could be setting a great example in their arty little surf clips of giving something back instead of a trying to be cool with a look back as they walk off a filthy beach with not a care in the world.
I lived in Phuket for some years and every winter the trades would bring piles of flotsam and jetsam onto the beaches I frequented so I would go down there and collect rubbish in garbage bags.
Same on islands I would take adventure tour groups to. Pristine beaches full of plastic but a couple of hours and they were looking good again.
Select to expand quoteCuttlefish said..
Every single surfer who goes to that beach Knost was surfing at should take a big black plastic garbage bag and fill it full of rubbish and take it somewhere to be disposed of properly.
Free as a bird surfers like Knost could be setting a great example in their arty little surf clips of giving something back instead of a trying to be cool with a look back as they walk off a filthy beach with not a care in the world.
I lived in Phuket for some years and every winter the trades would bring piles of flotsam and jetsam onto the beaches I frequented so I would go down there and collect rubbish in garbage bags.
Same on islands I would take adventure tour groups to. Pristine beaches full of plastic but a couple of hours and they were looking good again.
100%
Personally I thought it was disgraceful that the WSL rocked up to Bali for 2 events last year... And all their marketing about cleaning up the place... And yet didn't actually involve themselves or the athletes in the cleanup itself... Which they could very easily have made a huge contribution too...
And every shot of the competition area is full of surfers drinking from single use disposable plastic bottles and disposable non-recyclable coffee cups... There's where a huge example can be set to the new fen going there...
I mean seriously... Surfers have done irreparable damage to that place and it's culture... How about giving back even a tiny bit
Select to expand quotemike3217 said..
Alex Knost is a symptom of everything that is wrong with surfing now
Care to qualify that statement?
Select to expand quoteAndyrooMac said..
I mean seriously... Surfers have done irreparable damage to that place and it's culture... How about giving back even a tiny bit
Having done well over 40 trips to Bali,I feel some what qualified to add the following.
Yes pollution is absolutely disgusting in Indonesia ,pending on tide and wind direction the beaches are either clean or resemble a rubbish tip.
The locals when asked will always blame Java and say they dump the rubbish in the ocean,they don't give a rats about the environment and have not done for years.A fact is they don't use the ocean like we do most are scared of water..This may be true however I've traveled to very remote places up the mountains and witnessed rubbish trucks unload a full truck on the side of the road,some unload directly into creeks up in the hills there are mountains of rubbish being dumped out of the way out of site from tourists until the rain washes it all down steam into the ocean around Canggu,With a government who care for one thing only money and a Island which only income is tourism bugger all infrastructure ,its only now they have realised how big the issue is.There are truck loads of rubbish floating in the ocean just waiting for conditions to wash it onto the beaches.
On a side note you don't see any bintang bottles lying around, why? because they are refundable.
Select to expand quotesaltyheaven said..mike3217 said..
Alex Knost is a symptom of everything that is wrong with surfing now
Care to qualify that statement?
He is a great surfer without doubt and makes a income from riding these types of boards which he wouldn't riding, lets say standard stuff. He and a few others are god like in some parts.Gets to travel, make a few bucks along the way and dare I say have a great time doing it.
He has sponsors or gifted boards, clothing and probably other stuff. Same old argument each to their own,ride whatever, just be respectful and have fun.
www.oneislandonevoice.org/
A quick google search shows there are efforts being made. Couldn't link the other ones.
I typed in "Clean up Bali".
Select to expand quoteMacaha said..saltyheaven said..mike3217 said..
Alex Knost is a symptom of everything that is wrong with surfing now
Care to qualify that statement?
He is a great surfer without doubt and makes a income from riding these types of boards which he wouldn't riding, lets say standard stuff. He and a few others are god like in some parts.Gets to travel, make a few bucks along the way and dare I say have a great time doing it.
He has sponsors or gifted boards, clothing and probably other stuff. Same old argument each to their own,ride whatever, just be respectful and have fun.
Shapes as well...
Some real nice shapes in that thread too.
www.instagram.com/p/BvAIXbCH0-1/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=zx153af5qvud
Back on Hulls for a minute.... I reckon the factors that make a Hull the board that it is, the things that dictate it's strengths and weaknesses, and thus the things that seem to polarise people on the subject, have a whole lot more to do with pretty much everything about the board other than the convex 'hull' aspect.
Couple of images attached, the second is a description specifically of a Liddle Hull, the first is a collage of one of my boards.
This is the board that I grab when there's some juice, I'll ride it happily in anything I game for. Definitely not a 'hull' by my reckoning, but probably carrying as much convex curve through the front half as in the description below. It's got a slight bit more tail rocker than a typical hull, my rails are certainly not full there's a lot of deck roll. The back half is different for sure, the bit more rocker already mentioned, it also transitions through a triplane into a pretty typical double concave with v, then back to flat behind the fin. My fin is in a more normal spot and I've got little tiny bonzer style side bites that go in for a bit more hold and certainty when it's steep or hollow.
I've had a couple of attempts at shaping a full hull and to be honest I missed the mark each time, I've never held one in my hands so that kind of stacks the cards against me.
I love riding from the front half of the board, narrow stance. I love watching people do it, I love the feeling it gives me on the wave, I love burying the rail with all I've got and drawing the turn out long. I'm not suggesting I'm necessarily spectacular at it, but I'm pretty sure I hold my own. I certainly get plenty of comments about my boards after people see me surfing.
The whole forward narrow stance thing is something I actively work on. The Liddle Hull on the way is just a step in that journey, a learning tool if you like. It may not end up being something that I ride everyday, or even something that I hang on to. In my mind it's job is to teach me more about using the forward part of the rail, about having less and less dependence on the fin.
Select to expand quotesaltyheaven said..
He seems pretty balanced I reckon.
What a bunch of dumb ****ing questions I feel dumber for reading that.
Select to expand quoteAndyrooMac said..SP said..AndyrooMac said..
Some pro's and cons of the Liddle DM... and shapers profile vid...
Scott BTW is not really how I pictured these "Hipsters"
Does also acknowledge that Dane is clearly not the right match for the board, i'd LOVE to see Devon or Joel on one...
Interesting that he preferred it to Lizzy though as well.
stabmag.com/stabcinema/dane-reynolds-scott-anderson-greg-liddle-the-electric-acid-surfboard-test/
I'd bet Dane on the wrong board still surfs it better then 99% of the population could.
The curiosity factor would get me on a perfect lined up point but as daily driver think they seem limited. Think I'll always be scarred by Jimmy gamboa struggling in One California day. Kinda wish id taken the vouch for a wave when before sending down to you.
Totally Agree dude, Dane is a freak on anything... Mann I reckon they miss having a personality and raw talent like him on the World Tour...
And yeah, Lizzy is my DD, this ones for curiosity and to try and learn something different... I mean really, a lot of us have big quivers but you tend to surf 2 boards 80% of the time... so nothing wrong with adding some variety
And yeah, I think I told you to take her for a spin... TK was unreal on it on the points... Just too small for me
Yeah you did, just didn't get time to surf it. And would feel ****ty if I damaged it.
