Hi all!
My name is Twm, I'm a first year architecture student at Liverpool University.
I've recently been assigned a new project to desgin a Windsurfing and Land Yachting Centre at Crosby Beach in North Liverpool. I was hoping that by joining this forum I could pick your brains and get some advice and suggestions over the course of this 5 week project.
The first thing I would like to ask is pretty straightforward, what would you like from a centre such as this? What would you expect to be included and what would be a pleasant addition that you have always thought would make these places better to use?
Next is the sort of storage you guys need for windsurfing gear. What are the dimensions of the largest boards and sails, their height/length and width?
Any help you guys can give me would be much appreciated...
Cheers, Twm
Hi Twm (gotta be Welsh?), check this out:
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37801&SearchTerms=design
Hey Twm,
How come I didn't get projects like this during my schooling?
I got multi-storey office buildings, eco-friendly - low budget beach cafes, caravan park design, laboratories etc.
"Think outside the box" is an expression I had drilled into me during my schooling (building design/architectural). If there's to be sailing/teaching around the centre, research the wind patterns and maybe create natural 'wind-tunnels' with the centre's form/shape. Also, inclusion of a 'man-made' reef for the wave-enthusiasts with the centre running part underwater for a viewing are would be cool. Not sure about the landies, although I guess a large open area, maybe a 'moulded' land area to add a bit of shape for them to follow? All this would be depending on the brief/budget. If no budget is called up....GO NUTS with it!
Are you modelling this in CAD, or freehand sketch? either way, please post your ideas on this thread (see 'add an image' below message box), and you'll get plenty of feedback. (might not all be good, but hey...that's what crit sesh's are for!)
Have a word with the windsurfing club at liverpool uni. I sailed over at crosby with them a few times and they're pretty friendly.
Pity they knocked down the old place.
ha ha, yeah that's right...Welsh born and bred!
Thanks for the link there's some good stuff there, certainly some things i can use.
Still looking for details on board and sail dimensions though...the largest size they go to so i can design the storage accordingly.
The research I've done suggests that the largest boards are 2.6m long and 60cm wide. Is this right.
As for sails, all i can find are their areas (6.2 m squared and such). What I really need is the height and width. If someone could give me an idea of this then that would be great!
Sailhack I don't have a budget in fact so I really can go crazy. However, there's a limit to what I can do to the surrounding area. I have a small site plan with a 20% limit on the area I use for construction. I've included a pic that should show you what I'm dealing with.
They expect us to model in CAD (little more than Sketch Up at the moment), Technical Drawings and Physical Models.
nebbian A weathervane is a SUPERB idea (especially a funky one)!
nasty I hadn't considered that...my own uni too and it never even crossed my mind.
I'll contact them soon as.
Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you up to date on my projects progress.
Allow 3m length and 1m width for boards (beginner ones tend to be a lot bigger than more advanced stuff). For sails if you go with 5.2m length and 3m width you should have plenty of space.
Excellent, thanks nasty and Sailhack that info will allow me to begin thinking of the technical aspects!
Twm (Australians would probably just call you Tom
)
Try these links below to give you an idea of all the crap we keep in our windsurfing sheds / trailers.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=40828&whichpage=1
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=44531&SearchTerms=trailer
Don't forget a large area for rigging boats and sailboards together with washdown facilities and most importantly the sailing fraternity have been known to enjoy a drink or two so a bar is critical.
Good luck with your first year design assignment - that's the great thing about university assignments, you're only limited by your imagination. Referencing the sail or hull forms in terms of generating building forms could be nice symbolically but not essential.
Out of interest is LU's Architecture course 6 years.
I'd probably stick some secure parking in as well if I remember crosby right. 10ft barbed wire fence with armed guards should do the job
I'd suggest I nice big rigging area - grass works ok, but Liverpool can be wet. Don;t want to rig on concrete or tarmac because of the potential damage to gear. Maybe some of that really soft spongy substance they use underneath children's swings in the park? I don;t know how abrasive it is, but worth a look.
Also the area should ideally be a little sheltered, but it's not too important.
I wouldn't worry sausage most of the English students at this uni call me Tom...it's not so bad seeing as Twm is Welsh for Tom.
Thanks for the links, some good examples there of what to and what not to do! ha ha
As for the bar I shall definetly make sure one is is given pride of place...being a student I understand the need for such things.
My course is 7 years overall. That's 3 years Undergraduate study, followed by 1 year out working full time as an Architectural Technician. Then I can go back to uni for another 2 years Postgraduate study followed by 1 year as a full time Architect followed by my final exams. Following that, the construction industry awaits!
nasty the barbed wire fence might spoil the aesthetics however I will give the armed guards some consideration. ha ha
No in all honesty I'd say the area has changed. it seemed quite pleasant on the day my fellow architects and my self visited (although it was freezing cold and snowing heavily!). The sailing club, which sits across the lake/marina from my site (pictured above) has just been rebuilt into a modern and reasonably nice structure.
FlickySpinny some good details there, I will keep them in mind while desiging the riggin area. I also appreciate the material suggestions, materiality can be an awakward aspect of any architects design...you have an idea but can't be sure if the materials even exist to create it.
For some of the tutors this isn't an issue, for others, it should be at the forefront of our minds.
Ah, yes, and one very important thing - don't put the buildings in the way of the prevailing winds! Sounds simple, but there are plenty of places that have made this mistake - the Neilson centre in Dahab for example is a massive structure you could park a plane in, and directly in the way of the wind! (http://www.neilson.co.uk/Beach-Egypt-Dahab-At-a-Glance.aspx)
For an idea of gear storage, check out images of Club Vass and Club Dahab on google images, and this - 
Looks like Club Vass uses a wooden deck as a rigging area...
Thanks FlickySpinny, definetly some food for thought there. I'll also make sure to keep the building out of the way of the prevailing winds, that will impress the tutors come crit time.
of it were me i'd go for transportable self sufficient containers. ie. containers with built in water harvesting/solar/wind generation.
for a great massing exercise/envirinmentally friendly and has an endless scope.
lot-ek.com look at the mdu at the bottom of the index on the left.
or search shipping container architecture in google.
storage should accomodate rigged sails. 5800x3100
boards rack 1100x2700
a viewing platform would be nice,
and of course as mentioned above stay away from the prevailing breeze so as not to create a wind shadow.
you should also have an indoor/outdoor bar/bbq area.
Us lanyachters are very lazy when it come s to storage, but the smaller yachts need about the same for masts and sails, maybe 6 m for masts. good rigging /washdown area , access to sailing beach/carpark.
Im assuming there is a beach good enough for sailing on.
Like windsurfers we come in cold and dirty, need to shower/warm up then have some drinks or two.(Very cold)
as we sail on the foreshore could you please arrange to demolish all the tall buildings behind the complex and 2km in each direction up the coast
big windsock on the edge of the beach, and a storage area for markers/start lines etc.
how about an indoor viewing area with toddlers playground and cafe so the Ladies dont get bored watching the boys sail , this is not meant to be a sexist remark, having stood on the beach at Lytham , down the coast, on a windy day even the landsailors who wern't racing would go home between races
What about;
Wave barriers in some places to create flat-water zones for learners, and those learning new moves.
A bar and coffee shop with a great view of the sailing area; plus an area where the under-18s can hang out.
A shop and gear-hire area.
A creche.
Facilities to allow schools to use the area for sports classes (ie windsurfing lessons).
Areas of shallow water for teaching waterstarts and beginners.
Lots of storage for longboards (3.5-3.9m) plus an area for tandems; any place that relies on those who need planing conditions to have fun may struggle to get enough customers.
Lockers for sails, masts, mast bases and other gear, because gear goes missing from open racks; best of all is a locker long enough to take your gear and your board.
Hosing down area with water recycling system.
A fire for defrosting in front of in winter.
Oh, and a special area for those (like some of the kiters here) who think that only their form of sailing is any good. We call this an exit.
Hi TWM,
i was kind of inspired by sausages references to form and also the concept of windsurfing/surf culture being a religion for a lot of us who are addicted.
i came up with a quick sketch.
I like the sound of those transportable self sustaining containers Gestalt, especially their enviromentally friendly aspects.
Those dimensions will also be really handy.
landyacht thanks for the info on land yachts. I've heard from other sources that the largest yachts that could be used on Crosby Beach are the Class 5.
Thanks for the design ideas guys, however, we have been warned (quite specifically) not to base our design on a sail or a shipping container (the site is right next to a container port).
WOD the site already has a lake on one side and the sea on the other so it features a flat area for training. The rest of the ideas I shall definetly take on board though.
Unfortunately I have just disocvered how small the area allocated to the actual building footprint is. It's going to be a struggle to fit everything in.
Good news, some miscalculations and miscommunication with the tutors means I actually have much more room to play with than first thought!
Twm,
You know a lot of the world's great architectural masterpieces completely threw the project brief out the window - it's usually sometimes the most radical ideas that garner the backing of the client. Think Pompidou Centre[spelling], Syd Op House, Guggenhiem Mueseum, the list is numerous.
A beer garden/ bar. (this outdoor area may have to be indoors in England) 
otherwise I am keen on the "Gilligans Island look" ie thatched roof and bamboo tropical island coconut cream pie etc.
I would ignore the references to 3.5m - 3.8m longboards - these went out with the ice-age (no offence meant) and aren't very beginner friendly (compared to the new short-and-fat beginner boards like a Starboard Go). I cannot remember the last time I saw someone sailing something over 3m long - actually I can - it was a tandem (which I also believe you probably don't need to accommodate given the rarity of these beasts).
Just my opinion - not slating people who enjoy these things, but pointing out that there are so few people that are into this kind of stuff that it's probably not worth designing a centre around them.
Well what I was thinking might be wise would be for the majority of storage to hold the smaller boards (less than 3 meters) with one or two spaces for the larger Kona Doubles.
TOM
your first assignment from us is to sail a windsurfer...you should try before you understand about windsurfing
sure as a fledgling archichoke you cant always experience what you are designing for..
say you had to design a helipad on a skyscraper for landing helicopters..
well its not affordable or practical to rent a helicopter to experience the needs of a helicopter pilot
but in designing a sailboard complex..you can certainly experience sailboarding cheaply
a few lessons will only cost you a few beers for your frat party
so go on, make us proud and tell us you have just come back from a windsurfing safari
we will respect you even more
hee hee another windsurfer made curtesy of seabreeze
