OK fast? reduced wetted area, right cutouts (oh we're ignoring fins here BTW), flat rockered.
What else makes it fast? Not much on that list....?
Now I have a fast slalom but without affecting top end speed too much, what to make it turn?
Smaller cutouts to help plane thru gybes......what else? (don't want to play with rails too much and slow it down)
Now to make it more comfy and easier to ride fast in chop? We still want a slalom board,not heading to freeride...
Little bit more vee, little bit double concave.
What else?
one of my slalom board designs did over 40knots in open water and went round corners pretty quick too.
really what made it fast was the guy sailing it. doubt i coulda done that speed on it. 
Fastest boards turned fine with great pilots.
Slightly detuned works for most pros. Tucked rails, eggier outlines, bit more V, thinner rails....
Depends what the rider needs to go fast, and what are the prevalent water conditions.
Pro slalom have shorter length of flat than freerace, so need more power to achieve speeds.
TectonicsMaui used to be the combo of fastest, somewhat turny, and somewhat durable. Now top 80%, with lots of composite foam sandwich on top, tuned to rider weight and preference.
G-10 only keeps it's top performance for around 50 days for me, at 155 lbs. I'd think a top pro finding a great fin would save it for big races and only use it for a few runs monthly for comparison purposes.
Rough water speed is different from flat water speed.
Fast is a board that works for you, that you can push to the limit with confidence. Just because someone else can go fast on x brand is only an indication of its potential. If there isn't a level of comfort and confidence it won't be fast for you. I can't sail one brand as they just don't fit me even though they are fast.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
G-10 only keeps it's top performance for around 50 days for me, at 155 lbs. I'd think a top pro finding a great fin would save it for big races and only use it for a few runs monthly for comparison purposes.
Please explain??? It softens with use??
Mark, if it's an old slalom board, yes play with the rails. Some really fast modern speed boards have plenty of tuck forward of the front strap, it's only the rails behind the front strap that need to be square.
What helps make a slalom board turn, is the rocker between the rear centre line and the rail adjacent to the front strap, quite often this ends up negative. Playing with the cutouts could slow you down, but filling them in with rocker could help you turn. As I understand it, the cutouts reduce the lift behind the rider, enabling positive angle of attack, but a spiral V there should have a similar effect, but add a little more surface area.
For chop V helps, but reduces lift and adds more surface area. I think a wide board and big fin maybe the trick, it lets you fly across the top more, not that I'm any good at that trick, but I've watched people who are, and that's what they reckon.
Thanks Decrepit
I'm just looking for ideas as I have a very fast open water slalom design and want to know in general terms how to detune it slightly for (1) most people and (2) open ocean with bigger chop
So I'm thinking
a smidge - couple mm -more rail tuck in midsection
tiny bit more vee to about just behind front foot
reduce cutouts by about 10%
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Thanks Decrepit
I'm just looking for ideas as I have a very fast open water slalom design and want to know in general terms how to detune it slightly for (1) most people and (2) open ocean with bigger chop
So I'm thinking
a smidge - couple mm -more rail tuck in midsection
tiny bit more vee to about just behind front foot
reduce cutouts by about 10%
Mark, I have. a1990 something WindTech and have thought about giving it a tweak in the rails so I'm interested to see your project unfold and final paint job too. Lol
Nah this is not a modify.
Its getting a slalom design and making it a tiny bit more "everyman" and LOC oriented. But without losing too much top end.
I'm just seeking ideas as I am not a racer's butthole .... not a slalom guy for sure.
Then again in open water I have juusstttttt kept up with a top slalom guy when on my 3S so yeah its about comfort..... thus I reckon a slalom board can be 'softened" a lot and still be blisteringly fast
So seeking ideas from those who really know this topic....
Hi Mark. The RRD firestorm V2 111 that I had was wickedly fast on the ocean and chop at safety bay warnbro sound. ( not the pond) and with severne turbo sails could keep up with or pass most people on full race kit. The following version that was 25% ( according to RRD) faster was crap on the ocean and gybed like a dog. Also the V1 Patrik slalom boards are great on the ocean and chop. I got the fastest hour on ka72 kingdoms for Carlisle st safety bay in 30 + knot conditions last summer on the 92litre. If you could get to look at either of them it should give you some Ideas for a good ocean board.
I agree for us lesser than athlete's comfort = speed in not so perfect conditions.
Fast in open ocean conditions.
Fast Forwad with Robbie Naish sailing off Maleakana Beach on Oahu early '90's.
Comfortable like fast freeride.
We'd sail from 2 miles N Diamond Head 17 miles E to within sight of Molokai and back in just over 2 hours.
Fast in open ocean conditions.
Fast Forwad with Robbie Naish sailing off Maleakana Beach on Oahu early '90's.
Comfortable like fast freeride.
We'd sail from 2 miles N Diamond Head 17 miles E to within sight of Molokai and back in just over 2 hours.
^^LeeD, name dropping has nothing to do with board design. Please explain your G10 fin theory for me. Im always keen to learn.
I've bought at least 30 G-10 fins from 5 different companies.
Horizontal delams start within 20 uses, at the base of the fin where it pots into the finhead..US, Power, Meritex, Tuttle, Trim, Conic, DeepTuttle, don't matter.
That means they're weakening by the 15th day.
I've also spent 7 odd years hanging around Pro riders and even conversing with a few.
And working at windsurf shops for my first 23 years of windsurfing.
And attending the AWIA tradeshows for 15 years.
Fast forward is a Naish video and really the only one that shows fast windsurfing in open ocean conditions..
I won't mention circumstances because adding names would offend you.
Yes, I was there.
Select to expand quoteLeeD said..
Fast forward is a Naish video and really the only one that shows fast windsurfing in open ocean conditions..
I won't mention circumstances because adding names would offend you.
Yes, I was there.
Fast Forward is a NeilPryde video. Adding names: Haywood, Bringdal, Hamilton etc etc.
No I wasn't there ...
Am I that old? Losing my memory, ehm
Meant the video starring Robbie sailing lots of spots on Oahu and Maui.
The one with a long section of Backyards as a long ride.
Maybe RIP?
The video from early 90's, pink Gaastra and white 8'10" Iggy shaped slalom.
www.atomicwindsurf.com/masterblaster
Hey Mark Martin already makes exactly what you want ??
LeeD, adding names doesnt worry me. But OP wants input on BOARD DESIGN. Just sayin.....
Board design.
You guys do know that Robbie and some of the old guys never really embraced the new slalom designs..from late 80's to present.
He favored easier riding almost stretched and flattened wave shapes over boxy railed and stubbly shaped wide disks...this from then to now.
That IS board design.
He passes on the down hard railed shapes like HyPerTech or JP's, or even Energy.
He always favored slightly longer flats underfoot but balanced it with softer ticked thinner rails.
And how long it took to embrace cutouts?
Because he tested in rougher condition including open ocean sailing.
Which is why I used HIM as an example of a fast open ocean board designer.
Yeah and nobody can gybe them Lee, and if they were better than what we have now I'd say some pro would be using one on tour. .... so lets stay on topic? Yes some 10 y/o boards feel nicer to some people but I doubt anyone finds a 30 y/o board as fast AND as comfy in chop AND as easy to gybe as modern designs.
The question is for a given fast board, what is the best change to tame it in chop and make it easier to gybe - without losing too much speed. That is VERY difficult.
Select to expand quoteAUS4 said..
Nothing worth than name dropping when you can't even spell the name right 
Surely you meant 'worse' 
Select to expand quoteMark _australia said..
Yeah and nobody can gybe them Lee, and if they were better than what we have now I'd say some pro would be using one on tour. .... so lets stay on topic? Yes some 10 y/o boards feel nicer to some people but I doubt anyone finds a 30 y/o board as fast AND as comfy in chop AND as easy to gybe as modern designs.
The question is for a given fast board, what is the best change to tame it in chop and make it easier to gybe - without losing too much speed. That is VERY difficult.
it really does depends on board volume distribution and what volume board you are designing.
the rails are where you can influence the volume of a board. you can easily add or lose 10lt
how much volume you do or dont have in the rails has a direct influence on gybing. after that is the shape.
i don't think there is a straight answer as you need to build a board amd test it. even construction comes into play.
just looking around at the variation of shapes on the market shows there are many ways to solve the problem.
The idea is what counts, not correct spelling or grammar.
Some of us are not as educated, or anal as others.
Your skill and preference determines what you need, and BOTH change.
Before you make changes, don't you need to know what's slow AND
what's fast?
Simple answer...friendly slalom or fast freeride.
Tabou or Exocet friendly slaloms.
Everyone makes a fast freeride.
More swept fin.
Friendlier sail.
Shorten the hard tail rail.
Thin the tail rails.
Grippier pads.
Thin the entire board, less volume, need to add length
Bend zero knees
Spot flatter spots to jibe into
Look for favorable wind entering jibe spot.
Select to expand quotemr love said..
Mark...Give me a yell, I am happy to help you out with my 2c.
Having used Martin's board, it's perfect for what you have in mind Mark.
