Speed Loop again... but this time it's for real :) !

Honestly I am 50 and learnt on both tacks with Gem hall technical video s.
None of this social media with some giving advice who may not be experts???
Best advice is get it done and then.post us a video.
You are really close!!!!, in my opinion anyway

At 1:55 and 2:28 here

we can see the not so scary loop. The sail is brought forward and across before the board is airborne.

Once in the air then the rider just needs to hang on and tuck legs under. Beautiful as the mast doesn't appear to be headed straight to the water.

This is one of my early attempts at looping. I pretty much do everything wrong, don't bear off, don't sheet in hard enough, don't move my hands back etc etc....However, I let my weight go forward and over the board, land on the nose and hang on for my life. While it is ugly, I still managed to water start away from it.

.be

28 front attempts, last session, 2 hours, a bit more comfortable not as slappy, but nothing that looked like a front.

Tomorrow's only focus... punch front hand, everything else seems fine.

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Stuthepirate said..
Nice work Manuel.
IMO it looks as though you still need to extend your front arm out more to the side of your body at shoulder lever or higher and bring your back hand in and up near your forehead
I could be totally wrong though as my forwards are sucky.

Agreed, you front arm is quite bent in those photos. Perhaps this video will help (look at the front arm at at 4:05 min) also has some good practice tips. But my forwards are also sucky

Manuel, don't mis read my earlier post. We are totally behind you and we all know the frustration of windsurfing...but that why its fun to learn. Good luck again today!

Keep at it Manuel I'm watching this process with great anticipation I and i think most of the seabreeze windsurf forum members here really want to see you succeed

What you are doing is my goal for this year although i doubt i'll pull one off

Find a way to do something that gets close and without being too hard on yourself. I think wymaroos helped me but might have taught me a poor technique. Whatever it takes to try them!

Thanks mates. May I know what makes you say that your forwards are sucky?
So long as they are waterstarted away on a regular basis, they can't be that bad!
It does take a lifetime of style tweaking thereafter from what I heard.

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Vince68 said..
Keep at it Manuel I'm watching this process with great anticipation I and i think most of the seabreeze windsurf forum members here really want to see you succeed

What you are doing is my goal for this year although i doubt i'll pull one off

In my experience getting the location right is a big help. It is much easier to learn if there are some small ramps (even white water) that don't require effort to get air going downwind. I pretty much learnt to forward in two days in Coronations after quite a few seasons trying (albeit with a lack of commitment) on Perth metro beaches. This is purely because the quantity and quality of ramps was there in what is a 'safe' location. Reefs a long way from shore are not so good for obvious reasons, hence why Lancelin is not great for learning forwards, and the challenge with some of the metro locations is the ramps aren't great, are too close to shore, and when present require you to point a bit upwind, which is fine once you are getting around but not conductive to learning.

Suggestion - get to coronations in the summer for a weekend and spend the first half of each session learning, then just enjoy the second half. If you are committed you'll get it dialled in enough (i.e. consistently landing on your back) so that when at your home spot you'll be able to keep progressing the technique, even if on relatively flat water.

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Stuthepirate said..
Personally, I'm getting the board "pop" and rig rotation technique down ok, I can get through a full rotation, land wet and water start after the completion of the move. It's just the commitment side of this once the forward rotation starts. After a couple of big crashes, the feeling of catapult creeps in as i start my rotation. It's a mental thing which makes me hesitate and stuff the move up.

Waterstarting away from one is already quite advanced :) !
It always takes me a bit to trigger my first one especially if not finding much to throw it on and having to deal with gusty winds.

On my first big crashes, I eased off a bit, now I don't mind and for some reason I'm not as sore anymore probably relaxing more into the crashes. I did find that two rash guards were better than just one :D ! I do have a sore front foot (I'm not sure it's front related or just the padding of the strap being a little stiff on that side) but that's slowed me down a bit.

What slows me down too is the conditions double overhead and gusty slightly overpowering winds, I couldn't try any... but as soon as the water state becomes more friendly and the wind manageable all of sudden it's like bam bam bam!

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Stuthepirate said..
Keep the pics and journal coming. It's great to see.

I might not! Camera won't read SD card anymore... darn technology.

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Snarky said..
In my experience getting the location right is a big help. It is much easier to learn if there are some small ramps (even white water) that don't require effort to get air going downwind. I pretty much learnt to forward in two days in Coronations after quite a few seasons trying (albeit with a lack of commitment) on Perth metro beaches. This is purely because the quantity and quality of ramps was there in what is a 'safe' location.

I couldn't agree more, give me a spot close to the beach, with nice sets spaced out even side-on so long as they have a little kick and I could try dozens each time. Moving current and messy waves make it far more difficult. But that's no excuse, I'm sure there are tons of people who learned these moves with mitts and hoodie at dusk by themselves! (or not... :)!)

Wind crapped out for today, just like my camera...

The green shorts helped I think. Looking good on the surfing side, just need a bit more commitment or wind.

On the surfing side I need to learn to jump while leaning forward with my arms up, feels really awkward. I still send my gear up and downwind but kinda ahead of me which makes the rotation too difficult. My mast is raked back. If I can correct this it'll look tons better.

Tomorrow is looking sad but sat/sun spectacular.

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Manuel7 said..
39 knots... no try today, was just too tired and not in the mood to throw myself around or about.
Sooo.... made this video of the last best 3 attempts.

... my $0.02. Everyone is giving you feedback of "just need more commitment" ... that isn't your problem - you are already committed enough.

The problem appears to be mostly how you are preparing for the ramp... in this latest clip, it appears you are trying to chop-jump then do some type of rig rotation.

You need to put you back-hand on the boom-extension-clip, then stand-up tall over the board [ dont lean back at all ], then allow the board to pop upwards vertically [ look for a vertical wave - not more than 30cm, but the face must be vertical ]. The board should rise upwards at the nose at about a 45deg angle'ish. Then once the fin clears the water, do everything else that you are doing now.

If you look at the sub-planing examples, this description is basically the same thing - albeit without the fin letting go.... ie: hands wide apart, stand tall, allow the nose to pop up, then rotate.

... but if you aren't standing vertically [ in your vids, you are leaning back ], then there is better than average chance you are going to damage the nose of your board.

Mate, you're getting pretty close. From watching your videos I'd say there's just a couple of small things to think of then you'll be there. Everyone has said move your back hand back some more which I agree will help but the thing I think you should focus on now is your head!

I don't mean mentally because you are clearly over the big hurdle of pulling the trigger.

I mean simply turning your head more (which has flow on affects to your shoulders and whole body position). From where you are now (in those last few vids) turning your head and shoulders back more will fix all the other issues you're trying to solve. I've taught lots of people to loop and early on everyone says "but I am looking back" but it's got to be more than just a glance and the earlier it happens the better everything will be. The title frame in the video Roy has posted above shows very clearly where your head should be pointing and from my observations of your videos I don't think that is where your head is at. Fix this and you'll have them.

My usual tip is to have someone sail behind you (and slightly upwind of you) and then when you go for it look back at that person and stay looking at them. Focussing your eyes on something really helps and stops you over thinking everything else. The further back you look the more lift and rotation you'll get. You're not going to over rotate when you're learning so really go for it. Looking back naturally helps you do the other things you want to do like extending your front arm and sheeting in hard your back arm and as you get better it will help you spot the landings so you can get clean planing ones

In my opinion there are only 3 things to think about with a forward.
1. Get air - it is impossible to do a forward if you don't get your fin out of the water. Doesn't have to be big air but you have to be in the air... seems obvious but lots of people try when they aren't in the air.
2. Get your hand back on the boom. The further back the flatter the rotation will be. If you are high and want to go endo then you don't need to put your hand back. But if you are low and want to spin fast and flat (so your mast doesn't smack into the water) then you want your hand further back. Watch the pros do doubles, their back hand is literally on the boom clip.
3. Turn your head. Do it early and do it for the whole rotation. In the early days focus on something behind you.

I think you're getting 1 and 2 close enough that you should definitely be nailing them if you do 3 so I'd go out now and just focus on 3 for a while. Oh, and hold on tight - you're going to get some g force... it feels weird especially when you're looking behind you but don't let go... never let go!

Have fun!
Fletch

It might be worth practicing with a broom stick before you get back on the water. It took me a long time to get over the psychological barrier of throwing myself around but I did a lot of practice with just a stick (imaginary boom).

When I did stop whimping out it came pretty fast.

I think I tried 13 before I sailed away from my first one and never really looked back.

I found at the start sheeting in only and with both hands which it looks like you're doing in some pics gives you a slow and late rotation. Throwing the front arm forward really speeds it up. Have a look at the pic sequence in this video starting at 3:40

And this pic half way through which is on flat water

To quote Jem Hall again

Pop(or jump)
Throw (your front arm forward to turn you off the wind and start the rotation)
Look (back)
Pull (your back hand in)