ALLWAYS LOOK BACK! speeds up rotation and helps you to spot the water as you come around,less scary.Study the video i posted.
Yep, I think looking back helps stay sheeted in, every time I don't "really" want to go I tend to not look back. It's also to limit the rotation itself because I feel like it's just going too fast!
Hi Manual7, that looked the goods.
What size kit are you using? I can't see anywhere that it's neen mentioned.
Great thread
Hi mate, thank you! I'm using 4.5/81L for 67-68kgs/148-150lbs. Wind has been 12-22 knots with some days up to 28 but only sudden gusts. Most established was 18 probably.
I like my kit to give me the confidence I need to try them. On the other hand it's good to have enough power to feel the catapult and build up enough speed for a decent pop.
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
Hi mate, thank you! I'm using 4.5/81L for 67-68kgs/148-150lbs. Wind has been 12-22 knots with some days up to 28 but only sudden gusts. Most established was 18 probably.
I like my kit to give me the confidence I need to try them. On the other hand it's good to have enough power to feel the catapult and build up enough speed for a decent pop.
Thanks. I'll have to get a smaller board before I start.
Its on my bucket list.
Keep at it for us all.
I know of some people learning on 6's and 100L+, ultimately it's what you're the most comfortable with, both in terms of pop and maneuverability.
On some attempts where my fin never cleared it still spun me around since I was committed. Would I try on 105 today? Most likely not though!
I am travelling away from the beach sailing "backwards" at this very moment.
We can see the wave breaking that I just jumped from.
Winds are from the left yes.
In case you haven't seen it, interesting link about how long it took some pros to crack forward loop:
boards.co.uk/news/bwa-rhosneigr-how-long-to-forward.html
I wonder what conditions some of those folks had to successfully land one on their first day of trying!
I think we need a little context to all of this to make it truly valuable.
One may be able to waterstart after 1 day but to reproduce consistently, do it at any spot in various conditions, etc, it must take a long longer. Proffitt said exactly that. He was able to do a nice one early but took a long time after that to land another.
Anyway, I'm close to a couple of months, hopefully I can wrap it shortly! Forecast is getting a bit better. Today, I had my first post-illness session and it felt... all wrong! Anyway, no attempts today (just 1 back and 2 low high jumps!), tomorrow looks really really good (as often, let's just hope no cloud will mess us up this time!).
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
I wonder what conditions some of those folks had to successfully land one on their first day of trying!
I think we need a little context to all of this to make it truly valuable.
What do you define as 'land one'?... I'd suggest a back-slapper which then allows even the worst waterstart. It will be safe from over-rotating, and you wont need a big wave.
If you classify your first loop as a "dry" loop - that is likely going to take a while, and probably also some good conditions. And a planing-loop even more so.
I think the same as they'd expect, a (hugely wet) loop followed by a fairly short waterstart in the straps.
The one-day loop didn't quite work out for me so my next goal is to get one done before my 300th attempt :D !
Forecast is slightly more promising. My flu seems gone (darn tropics... 10-day virus!) within those next few days I should be able to hit the water and try a couple.
8 attempts today in light conditions, 12-21 knots, with a side-on-on direction. So hard to find a ramp with a nice slope, planing and with a decent speed.
A good feeling at the pop, I felt the need to throw my gear forward and up, I think that's good. The problem when I'm going slow is that I have a tendency to send the board upward, it sets my body rearward. Then the mast foot is too high and blocks the rotation.
Next session I'll focus on this gear throw while staying more straight over my board and even slightly forward.
Another thing when it's light, the sail doesn't really pull and the loop is more rolled than catapulted. We can't really play with the second part of the rotation before landing. Still better than nothing and we'll take all that's to be taken!
Tomorrow looks even lighter. Let's hope that I get a little push from Mother Nature, pretty please?
This was my best attempt lately just lacked speed.
Need to keep front arm straight throughout and avoid leaning back.
1/3
2/3
3/3
This is where I am more or less, a nice fail to end this post, and MORE PHOTOS HERE -> www.facebook.com/pg/Manus-Windsurfing-Blog-204083476593704/photos/?tab=album&album_id=502622786739770.
If there's one thing I'd like is to get rid of these pesky hesitations. It happens when the sail pulls but I'm not tucked in and didn't get a chance to move the sail forward.
Today we had miserable conditions again but I managed a few attempts late in the day after 2 hours of surf sailing in very light winds (backwinding sail heading for the top turn).
One attempt was not bad with a nice back slam type of landing. The lack of wind didn't offer me much chance to waterstart. On other attempts I tried different things but had such a light plane that it was difficult to tell.
Tomorrow looks worse... how depressing!
Well, we are looking for wind over here! Sometimes I just wonder whether I should invest in a slightly bigger board or even a small freestyle board to work on a few moves.
Each attempt I do doesn't get the wiiiish we get when powered up so everything has to be exaggerated. On a nice wave, I think my pop and throw are correct, now I need to focus on keeping my front arm straight throughout. It'll help me rotate maintaining the scissoring effect and waterstart upon landing. Underpowered when I pull up on the boom I find that the sail feels empty. I also need to stay tucked longer. I tend to open up midway through.
Anyway, just have to be patient I guess, eventually we are bound to get a good day again! If only I could combine a good ramp with a gust then I don't think I'd be too far off landing a beautiful one!
Yeah, I think to learn a speed loop you need to be well powered. Rather save it for the days that the wind is pumping and you are 100% certain of a good catapult. You can't go wrong with a freestyle board and bigger sail that will get you powered in lighter wind.
Great advise, I have thought about getting a smaller freestyle board to be able to pop and glide through lulls. The idea to go with a faster slightly larger board is more appealing than going with a larger sail.
Anyway, some people asked me to see the attempts in a video rather than pictures since it's a bit easier to visualize so here we go!
I'm seeing a few things, please do share your advises, I want to hear it all! Please do understand that the majority of these attempts were done in lighter winds hence the lack of speed and height.
Negatives:
- the sail throw is delayed a fraction of a second after take-off (by fear of something going wrong at the pop probably)
- legs don't stay tucked throughout
- front arm needs to extend sooner, it doesn't stay extended instead, the sail is brought towards me, while I should be going towards the sail
- my body is leaning back as opposed to concentrate on sheeting in with the rear hand and pointing with the front (bow and arrow)
Positives:
- body more forward at the throw
- backhand position is decent
- board stays with me
- fewer bails
Select to expand quoteManuel7 said..
Great advise, I have thought about getting a smaller freestyle board to be able to pop and glide through lulls. The idea to go with a faster slightly larger board is more appealing than going with a larger sail.
Anyway, some people asked me to see the attempts in a video rather than pictures since it's a bit easier to visualize so here we go!
I'm seeing a few things, please do share your advises, I want to hear it all! Please do understand that the majority of these attempts were done in lighter winds hence the lack of speed and height.
Negatives:
- the sail throw is delayed a fraction of a second after take-off (by fear of something going wrong at the pop probably)
- legs don't stay tucked throughout
- front arm needs to extend sooner, it doesn't stay extended instead, the sail is brought towards me, while I should be going towards the sail
- my body is leaning back as opposed to concentrate on sheeting in with the rear hand and pointing with the front (bow and arrow)
Positives:
- body more forward at the throw
- backhand position is decent
- board stays with me
- fewer bails
Mate they look so close. Great to see the vid.
Keep your feet in and waterstart away!
Oops, Ive never done one!
# 1 - Your best one... you extended your front arm and went round quite well...just had to keep your board !!! So close!
# 2 - You did not push the rig forward (front arm tucked in).
# 3 - was just forced ... maybe underpowered?
# 4 - Was also pretty close like #1
# 5 - Underpowered?
Try raising the boom above your head and forward as you sheet in with the back hand.
Also try hitting the steeper part of the wave.... I cant see too clearly in the vid (fisheye effect) but maybe hit the section that is just foaming which should be a bit steeper. Sometimes it looks like you are hitting the ramp where there is side-chop and its not as steep? Are you attempting mainly off chop or are you going for it in the break/surf?
All your attempts are very low (your nose smacks the water). Maybe try off some decent ramps with speed, if you commit like you did in #1 you will probably nail it. Personally I learnt of waves initially which was quite intimidating because the height freaks you out but the rotation just comes so much easier. I found low speed loops quite difficult because you really had to work it to get it round.
Dar, I appreciate the detailed feedback!Select to expand quoteDar said..
# 1 - Your best one... you extended your front arm and went round quite well...just had to keep your board !!! So close!
Agreed 100%. One of my very first good attempts. It felt great on the water except that I panicked halfway and bailed out of the straps! Afraid to slam down with the board basically.Select to expand quoteDar said..
# 2 - You did not push the rig forward (front arm tucked in).
I launched beautifully on a big wave (1.5m something like that) so once up I was like "wait too high!!!" And just held the sail really close to me to minimize its power and rotation. And then I bailed out of the straps too. It was a beautiful candidate this one!Select to expand quoteDar said..
# 3 - was just forced ... maybe underpowered?
Yes forced, rushed, where a wave lined up late kind of thing. I'd say that an excellent average attempt for me.Select to expand quoteDar said..# 4 - Was also pretty close like #1
My best and second-to-latest attempt so far. I had a split second hesitation upon take-off and thought about bailing because of too big. This caused me to minimize the sheeting in action and keep front arm extended. On this one, everything lined up quite nicely. I'm a bit shy about looking back too, it's often true on big attempts.Select to expand quoteDar said..# 5 - Underpowered?
Yes right after previous attempt, tried to pop and rush, but I'm not so good at popping with throwing the sail yet.Select to expand quoteDar said..Try raising the boom above your head and forward as you sheet in with the back hand.
I do this well on smaller attempt but the feel of having my body extended while popping is so strange and vulnerable, will get used to doing it for sure.Select to expand quoteDar said..Also try hitting the steeper part of the wave.... I cant see too clearly in the vid (fisheye effect) but maybe hit the section that is just foaming which should be a bit steeper. Sometimes it looks like you are hitting the ramp where there is side-chop and its not as steep? Are you attempting mainly off chop or are you going for it in the break/surf?
The last attempt was off of a rounded chop, was steeper at first but rounded out and I decided to do it anyway. Most my attempts I look for a wave with some kick problem is that they are mostly upwind (side-on-on) and I lose my speed in those light winds. So I try to do more off-the-lip type of jumps where I hit the wave sideways.Select to expand quoteDar said..All your attempts are very low (your nose smacks the water). Maybe try off some decent ramps with speed, if you commit like you did in #1 you will probably nail it. Personally I learnt of waves initially which was quite intimidating because the height freaks you out but the rotation just comes so much easier. I found low speed loops quite difficult because you really had to work it to get it round.
Agreed 100%. Main issue when it gets too big is that I don't tuck as well nor look back or raise my boom upon take-off. The good thing is that if it's windy I don't need to do as much. Each try makes me more comfortable. Right now 1m fairly side powered up nicely is good. I haven't tried to just pop and throw over chop downwind but I'm getting close.
Finally, yesterday with some good wind for a change, I was able to accomplish a major change in my loops. After about 2 hours to backslapping, jump and launch type of attempts, I knew I had to stop these parasite jumps before throwing the sail. So I try to launch forward, off of a small wave at small speeds, extending my arm fully before clearing the fin and the board just followed.
The rotation felt much smoother, easier and I landed in a much more manageable position. Unfortunately it was after 2 hours of pretty good winds and I was spent. Still I pulled 3 attempts like this, they all were very similar and only lacked speed and height to waterstart away.
For the first time I was also able to do 3 attempts that looked very similar and not so wobbly or uncertain. I didn't have fear going into them because for some reason I got used to throwing the move while still on the water. It's an odd feeling to start getting pulled while still on the water but the board just follows and it's actually easier to tuck the board below me.
I have a strong feeling that my next try might actually end up in landed loop!
Ok lots of news, first of all Irma decided to pass by and shut off the wind for a bit.
Then it took down my windsurfing center 
!
Approaching:
Don't know if you have seen this but I am sure it will inspire you so that you can go for it!!!
