How good is the new North Sonar?

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tvesurf said..
Looking to get some advice on an additional front wing here.

I'm currently using the 1200MAv2 with the s210 and really liking it. I am able to get it flying in 18kts with a 4.2m and in 12-14kts with a 6.0m wing. I'm 88kg and 184cm and on a North seek 88l for reference.

I am able to tack and jibe consistently and can do a couple of jibe variations(duck, racing and Heineken). Also starting to get into jumping and have been in the waves twice so far. I'm guessing it would be best to stay with the MA range.

What size would be good below the 1200? Is the gap with the 1050 sufficient or would the 850 be a better fit? Or would something like the SF930 be a better fit as I'm not necessarily looking for more speed?

I ended up going for the 850 for the simple reason that it is available right now. I wouldn't have gotten the 1050 in time for my trip to Ireland. I might still switch out my 1200 for a 1050 somewhere next year.
For now I'll just have to make sure that I'm properly powered up when I try the 850!

Thanks everyone that chimed in with their advice!

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Shlogger said..

MProject04 said..

FyrFlieWork said..
Hi all, I have been lurking around this forum for quite a while, love the info, and been riding North foils for a few years now winging. I am getting into pump foiling both dock starting and SUP flat water paddle up, and finally have a Pump foil coming, the P2050 (I am about 87Kg), and pretty excited to try the new wing. I can't get the stabilizers that go with it here yet, so wondering opinions on which of the stabilizers I have which would be best suited for this set up. I have a S208, S215, and S270. Has anybody tried the Pump wings any thoughts on the right set up would be appreciated? Thanks.

Oh by the way nice light wind winging MProject. I can't get much below 10mph with my SF1230 and dw board, I was wondering if the new foils will allow an even lower bottom end, we often have very light wind days where I am. Might even try the pump foil in the 5-6Kn days, I know it isn't meant for it, but if it gets me out

So I have the same set of stabilisers: 208, 215 and 270. I asked Uli which to take for the DW1400 (while the s192 and s142 not available) His reponse was s215 (short term).

I think because that aligns best with the low stall speed of the DW1400. Low stall speed front wing .. low stall speed stab. Could apply to the P wing too.

But perhaps best that Uli can shed more light on this here?

I took out the DW1100 today w the 215 stab in some 08-12 G13 kt afternoon seabreeze, knee to chop wind wave. Agreed!!! The DW's come up quick! With the 215, the pump was very easy. As expected, where the foil really shines is in the GLIDE. Basically it's an HA w some SF hybrid :)
It's a keeper for DW runs and light wind days. I've tried it w the 208 and 178 and it was fast, but if you want to slow it down and have an effortless pump, the 215 works great. I'll def buy the DW stab when it's available.

I JUST ordered the DW1100, S195 stabilizer, and Carbon C85 Edition. Can't wait to see how the setup handles dockstarts, 5+ waves back wakesurfing, and flat water pumping. I was going back and forth between the DW1100 and SF1080 for a while before reading your thoughts on it striking the right balance between the HA and SF series. Now just to wait...

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LucasUK said..
Where do you see the Norths Foil range going ? Feels like with releasing the Pump and Downwind wings they have closed the circle. Would love to see something like Axis have done with the Art v2. Combining High Aspect range with surf range. So hope we will see North HAv2....

I mentioned it above but the DW is def a mix of the SF and HA dna. My DW1100 would def smoke the SF1080 for speed and glide and out pump it as well. The SF1080 would win the turning battle and ease of use, the stall speed would probably be a tie.

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Shlogger said..

LucasUK said..
Where do you see the Norths Foil range going ? Feels like with releasing the Pump and Downwind wings they have closed the circle. Would love to see something like Axis have done with the Art v2. Combining High Aspect range with surf range. So hope we will see North HAv2....

I mentioned it above but the DW is def a mix of the SF and HA dna. My DW1100 would def smoke the SF1080 for speed and glide and out pump it as well. The SF1080 would win the turning battle and ease of use, the stall speed would probably be a tie.

yeah but the span will hold it back, could not really compare with the SF when it comes to turning it etc. The DW wasnt really designed for that. Just hope for HAv2...

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WindyBear said..

FyrFlieWork said..
That is cool. The DW foils do sound interesting. I should have my P2050 in the next day or two, I will try it with the 215 and let you know how it goes. With all this talk I am considering putting the 215 back on with my sf1230 and see if I can slow down and ride more of the lake chop without constantly overrunning it. It has been a while since I used it instead of the 208.

Any feedback on the P2050? have you used it In any swell?
I'm looking into a good pumping and glide wing, possible either the p1800 or Dw1400, that can get me on foil with a flatwater SUPfoil start but could also work for smaller bay runs/sheltered water downwinders. It seems on the specs sheet the pump wings (p1800, p2050) don't have ticks for anything but pumping disciplines, but I wonder if there is some crossover potential just like the Axis PNG 1300 seems to be a favourite for many on lake/bay downwind runs.

i currently have the HA(v1) 1450 which is a great wing for winging In light wind, and decent enough on a winging downwinder - when paired with my 208 stab. But it doesn't really have the endless glide and so far seems impossible to do a flatwater start on it. Having said that, I did dockstart it last season with reasonable success.

So I have tried the P2050 for dock starting, what can I say... I suck at pumping and dock starting is HARD, I actually have a youtube video I can link which is just me falling off repeatedly :) but I will keep working on it. I have pulled it slowly behind the boat to get the hang of pumping it... it does NOT like to turn. Because of that I have to be very stable and super balanced right in the middle or it rolls out on me. It has good glide, as you would expect, and you don't have to put too much power in it to keep it moving, it comes up really early but doesn't like to have any speed or it dives. So kinda what you would expect really from a pump foil. I am mostly struggling to keep it balanced. I am used to my SF 1230, which is much friendly in a lot of ways as it turns easy, making it easier to balance, isn't too bad to pump either, and still has a decently low stall speed, but no where near as low as the P2050, but I feel the SF's glide is almost as good.

My main struggle is staying balanced on it which surprises me, I thought a big foil would be more stable, and easy for balance, but there is definitely an art to trying to stay upright without it rolling out from under you. I am really quite comfortable on the smaller foils, like my SF and HA1050 for both winging and wake foiling, so didn't think this would be as hard to handle as it is. I took the P2050 out winging in less then 10mph of wind last night, and I was able to get it going with almost no wind, none of my other foils would have been up and going. Again it was more the balance I was having trouble with, as I couldn't get it around for gybes without it rolling out from under me. I will keep working on it for dock starting and flat water paddle ups, and maybe use it with the boat and wing to practice getting the balance of it, but I don't feel like it would be good for down winding, or light wind winging as it doesn't like to turn, and dives with the slightest extra power, and is very finicky with the balance point, at least at my skill set so far. It pumped good with a wing in hand though, as you would expect. I would love to try the big DW foils and see how they compare, but I can only afford so many foils this year. I don't think the pump foil is what you want of you are thinking swell, I was hoping it would work in light lake chop, but with how touchy the balance point and its very limited top speed, and how little it likes to turn, I am not sure that it will work for that, but that my be more my lack of skill more than the foil itself.

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TooMuchEpoxy said..

LucasUK said..
Where do you see the Norths Foil range going ? Feels like with releasing the Pump and Downwind wings they have closed the circle. Would love to see something like Axis have done with the Art v2. Combining High Aspect range with surf range. So hope we will see North HAv2....

I really don't understand North chasing down wind and the giant HA on this system. I've got the SF 930 and that's a real winner But it's a short span wing that's not putting a lot of stress on that mediocre connection system. I can't imagine how lose a big span pumper feels on that fuse.

Little update on that I switched to an aluminum fuse and it's LIGHTYEARS stiffer. Don't let north trick you with the "upgrade" to carbon the aluminum is much better - I'll take stiffness over weight any day! ESP for some kind of big span wings it will make a difference in stability with some of the above comments about it being tricky staying in column above it.

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TooMuchEpoxy said..

TooMuchEpoxy said..

LucasUK said..
Where do you see the Norths Foil range going ? Feels like with releasing the Pump and Downwind wings they have closed the circle. Would love to see something like Axis have done with the Art v2. Combining High Aspect range with surf range. So hope we will see North HAv2....

I really don't understand North chasing down wind and the giant HA on this system. I've got the SF 930 and that's a real winner But it's a short span wing that's not putting a lot of stress on that mediocre connection system. I can't imagine how lose a big span pumper feels on that fuse.

Little update on that I switched to an aluminum fuse and it's LIGHTYEARS stiffer. Don't let north trick you with the "upgrade" to carbon the aluminum is much better - I'll take stiffness over weight any day! ESP for some kind of big span wings it will make a difference in stability with some of the above comments about it being tricky staying in column above it.

Have you ever tried a different north carbon fuse? Just wondering if it's aluminum v carbon or just your particular carbon fuse. Is it torsionally that you think the aluminum is stiffer? It looks like larsdegroot went from 1 carbon fuse to another and noticed a difference, so it may be there is some variability in the carbon fuses?

Just curious, I'm a ways from being good enough to notice the difference anyway.

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Shlogger said..
Can annyone offer some input on the DW900? Today I was winging some rolling thigh to crotch high chop in the Ship Channel and was blown away by the glide and pump of my DW1100 w the 185 Stab. At the end of the sesh I pumped the last 75 yards w the wing dropped into the beach and it was the easiest pump I've personally experienced. It really got me thinking as to whether the DW900 would work almost as well w maybe some better turning ability. I'm 6'2" 80 kg's.

How do they turn ? I just think they are bit spany...

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Shlogger said..

LucasUK said..

Shlogger said..
Can annyone offer some input on the DW900? Today I was winging some rolling thigh to crotch high chop in the Ship Channel and was blown away by the glide and pump of my DW1100 w the 185 Stab. At the end of the sesh I pumped the last 75 yards w the wing dropped into the beach and it was the easiest pump I've personally experienced. It really got me thinking as to whether the DW900 would work almost as well w maybe some better turning ability. I'm 6'2" 80 kg's.

How do they turn ? I just think they are bit spany...

I've had the DW1100 out the last few days and they do turn. But you have to use good form with constant pressure on the jibes. As I mentioned above, they excel at lift off, stall speed, glide and pumping. So much so that's why I was asking for someone's experience w the DW900. I starting to think I don't need that much foil.
Update: Just listened to Dylan's podcast X-Foils, episode 21, answered all my questions. Good fun listen as well. ??

When you say constant pressure .. you mean pressure on the inside rail yes? As you go through the jibe?

And that's because this front wing has a greater (horizontal) self leveling tendency? And is far more pitch happy/unstable?

Yes the pump and glide is amazing. 1 pump gives you 10 meters or more glide. And it can turn (small zig zag carves)

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live2play said..

?si=EeJoKes0oZRB9wKa

Thanks @LivetoPlay for sharing our video :)
Frank here from the Wing Life Podcast team.We are at AWSI on site. In case of questions for the North crew about the new 25 lineup, feel free to shoot us over your questions and we are happy to get you some answers.Today is the last expo day.BR,Frank

Anyone else been trying the Foil Drive with North foils? I've been on the FD Gen2 since May and loving its dual purpose for DW runs and prone surf sessions.
I'm 86kg and mostly using it with the Sunova Carver 58l and North Swell 4'10 42l with the SF1080. The 1080 feels easy enough to get up on in flat water, has given me several great DW runs and it turns and pumps very nicely for prone surfing, the Swell more nimble though. I tried the SF1230 which was great for learning the FD, gets up even easier and has a broad slow pumping cadence but the SF1080 is quite a lot faster and more nimble. All w S215 stab. I've also tried the SF930 and needs a swell to get up but is even faster and more agile? I'd love to use that more but can have a lot of false starts and hard time getting up if get some wind chop. I've just recently started trying the North Vert 30l which feels amazing, has easier release and bit faster acceleration than the Swell, meaning I got up w the SF930 from a small swell assist. It has severe connection issues though due to the carbon tracks so requires the FD antenna.
Ill prob try the HA1050 soon and may order a DW1100 or 900 as could be ideal with the FD. Keen to hear if others have any reports from the FD and north front wings. cheers

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larsdegroot said..
I broke 2 masts in 2 weeks. I don't know what is going on. Since I bought a new fuselage C700 with the new screws.. I have 2 broken masts.


I thought my first mast was a coincidence.. but I was winging today with a friend's mast and the same thing happened! A small 360 and....... broken.
The first mast will be replaced for warranty, but what is going on? Is the new fuselage screw system not compatible with this batch of masts? Hope someone can help me out. Btw both happened with the MA1050v2, but I don't think that's the problem here..

Sold a number of these and never seen a failure like this. I would suspect there is something else causing it but would need to see it in person. Can I ask if you are using the supplied length screw? If the screws are too long and bottoming out it could put additional stress in that area.I would suggest taking it into your shop with the fuselage so they can investigate in more depth.

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larsdegroot said..
As you can see on the picture, those are the M8 30 supplied with the new fuselage. The older fuselage system had different screws that fell in the fuse.

Same here with the fuses of my wife and me. At least they supplied the right screws for each one.

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NikOnFoil said..

larsdegroot said..
As you can see on the picture, those are the M8 30 supplied with the new fuselage. The older fuselage system had different screws that fell in the fuse.

Same here with the fuses of my wife and me. At least they supplied the right screws for each one.

Hi Nik! Yes the right screws come with the fuselage. So you have the same problem?? What did you do with it?

Is this a new fuse vs old mast issue? Or is it just my fuse? It feels rock solid when I screw it on !

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MProject04 said..

Shlogger said..

LucasUK said..

Shlogger said..
Can annyone offer some input on the DW900? Today I was winging some rolling thigh to crotch high chop in the Ship Channel and was blown away by the glide and pump of my DW1100 w the 185 Stab. At the end of the sesh I pumped the last 75 yards w the wing dropped into the beach and it was the easiest pump I've personally experienced. It really got me thinking as to whether the DW900 would work almost as well w maybe some better turning ability. I'm 6'2" 80 kg's.

How do they turn ? I just think they are bit spany...

I've had the DW1100 out the last few days and they do turn. But you have to use good form with constant pressure on the jibes. As I mentioned above, they excel at lift off, stall speed, glide and pumping. So much so that's why I was asking for someone's experience w the DW900. I starting to think I don't need that much foil.
Update: Just listened to Dylan's podcast X-Foils, episode 21, answered all my questions. Good fun listen as well. ??

When you say constant pressure .. you mean pressure on the inside rail yes? As you go through the jibe?

And that's because this front wing has a greater (horizontal) self leveling tendency? And is far more pitch happy/unstable?

Yes the pump and glide is amazing. 1 pump gives you 10 meters or more glide. And it can turn (small zig zag carves)

Exactly!!! I've tried some other pump foils and turning is only accomplished thru a very large radius. So on a good note, you can whip some pretty tight turns on the DW's w good technique (Solid, consistent pressure ALL the way through the turn). You can feel what the foil will do with some zig-zag or I like to simulate some surfing turns. You'll feel the Off/On from one side to another or leveling process. As for me, I'll keep the DW100 for light wind small bump days, she's moving my 1450HA on to a new owner. That foil btw is still a great foil, pumps great, glides and turns, but the DW has some special sauce. I'll get the DW900 for more legit days.