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Forums > Wing Foiling General

New BRM Parawing just launched

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Created by MidAtlanticFoil 7 months ago, 13 Aug 2024
jdfoils
307 posts
14 Aug 2024 11:32PM
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So cool.

CFL Foiler
113 posts
14 Aug 2024 11:44PM
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Select to expand quote
Waterkooled said..
Ok guys ! Seems i'm pretty alone on this subject so i will stop anticipating the againsts and leave you all with the fors .
No offense meant to anyone or anything , just a discussion .



Fair to point out anticipated challenges but I think we all have to ask ourselves if it's constructive feedback about a new discipline or just fear of change, comfort in our current sport of choice that causes us to throw stones.
My initial reaction was pretty skeptical, but the more I see the more excited I get about this. Definitely looks like an improvement over the pocket wing in several ways.

Hopefully the 5m and 6m are viable options for those of us not in Maui. Would be awesome if this works in Florida. I love my Foil Drive but the weight is a big draw back. Coming from a wind background I might prefer this for dw assist runs. Someone pointed out the instability in some of the clips. I am guessing that's just a side effect of depowering the single skin design. Same as FS peak kites, it may be a non issue and it actually be a positive sign for depower ability and upwind capability.
Looking forward to the reviews but this definitely looks promising.

kook123
43 posts
15 Aug 2024 12:52AM
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I do think having a look at first timers using a new tool to be informative, but to a pretty limited extent, and I certainly wouldn't base a purchase decision on it, since the question to me is how long does it take an average joe to get past that initial lack of control and be effective/efficient using it to do what they intend.

That said, the fairly crazy movement of the parawing in the test ride videos does make me wonder what it takes...

CFL Foiler
113 posts
15 Aug 2024 1:21AM
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Would like to see someone riding the 5m bunch it up and pack it away while riding. I can see how that would work on the smaller sizes but having spent a ton of time riding a 5m peak it's hard to see just pulling in that much fabric and bridles and reliability packing it away.

So many questions, looking forward to some reviews and more videos.

MidAtlanticFoil
742 posts
15 Aug 2024 2:51AM
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Select to expand quote
CFLKiter said..
Would like to see someone riding the 5m bunch it up and pack it away while riding. I can see how that would work on the smaller sizes but having spent a ton of time riding a 5m peak it's hard to see just pulling in that much fabric and bridles and reliability packing it away.

So many questions, looking forward to some reviews and more videos.


When my 4M arrives tomorrow there won't be any wind. I'm likely going to immediately figure out and practice gathering and packing it way in the belt. Also will be cool to figure a temporary way of holding it without fully stowing so I can toss it back out after a shorter ride. Maybe bunch it up under my armpit and hold the handle the proper power position so it will be just lift up arm and swing it into flight. Saturday there's some 12-15knt wind in the forecast, so I'll have my DW board and bigger foils out to figure it all out in the kiddie pool, or just go straight out to the hurricane swell we have arriving as well

Frankieboy
108 posts
15 Aug 2024 5:54AM
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maybe the high price is due to the patented Street Star kite from Born Kite...

?feature=shared

MidAtlanticFoil
742 posts
15 Aug 2024 6:48AM
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Select to expand quote
Frankieboy said..
maybe the high price is due to the patented Street Star kite from Born Kite...

?feature=shared


Borne kite blew up BRMs Facebook post basically calling him a thief, but also letting everyone know that he's coming out with a similar model to BRMs in September at a much lower cost

KB7
NSW, 109 posts
15 Aug 2024 10:01AM
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Just when I thought I had all the foiling gear I need. If this works as shown and I believe it will for anyone with good skills it opens up yet another segment of foiling.

I have been using my downwind board allot doing upwind downwind runs with a small wing flagged out it's good fun but the wing gets in the way and restricts freedom and it's kind of cheating due to the added assist from windage on the wing. I've tried deflating the wing and paddling up which was not fun resulting in long section paddling back in less than ideal bumps.

This Parawing solves that problem and opens up so many places with less than ideal DW conditions, just crank upwind, pack away and you can have a proper go trying to connect and pump sections without a wing or paddle in you hands with the security of getting back on foil easily when you come down.

So I'm all in but just tried to buy the 4m and hit the same problem as when I tried to buy one his BRM cloud kites 5 years ago . Only available to ship to USA addresses, yes I could ship to a relative in Palo Alto but that just adds cost. I know he is a small operation and is probably happy living a chill life on Maui selling a few hundred products a year to US customers . (Who wouldn't be)

For the rest of us let's hope that brands like Ozone and flysurfer will launch something similar soon.

foilthegreats
661 posts
15 Aug 2024 8:19AM
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?si=MUr0rtnIA-sZiWUr

foilthegreats
661 posts
15 Aug 2024 8:23AM
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Select to expand quote
KB7 said..
Just when I thought I had all the foiling gear I need. If this works as shown and I believe it will for anyone with good skills it opens up yet another segment of foiling.

I have been using my downwind board allot doing upwind downwind runs with a small wing flagged out it's good fun but the wing gets in the way and restricts freedom and it's kind of cheating due to the added assist from windage on the wing. I've tried deflating the wing and paddling up which was not fun resulting in long section paddling back in less than ideal bumps.

This Parawing solves that problem and opens up so many places with less than ideal DW conditions, just crank upwind, pack away and you can have a proper go trying to connect and pump sections without a wing or paddle in you hands with the security of getting back on foil easily when you come down.

So I'm all in but just tried to buy the 4m and hit the same problem as when I tried to buy one his BRM cloud kites 5 years ago . Only available to ship to USA addresses, yes I could ship to a relative in Palo Alto but that just adds cost. I know he is a small operation and is probably happy living a chill life on Maui selling a few hundred products a year to US customers . (Who wouldn't be)

For the rest of us let's hope that brands like Ozone and flysurfer will launch something similar soon.


They will ship internationally but you need to contact for shipping quote according to the website.




KB7
NSW, 109 posts
15 Aug 2024 11:07AM
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Okay thanks, I see that now on the main site .

I was trying to check out from the shop cart and the only country listed is US.

It would be handy to have a comment there

Gorgo
VIC, 5052 posts
15 Aug 2024 11:49AM
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Here's a DIY version using a Flysurfer Peak 4 3m. It looks like he's removed the lower section of the bridle. Love the high tech control bar. He says he's been using it for downwind/upwind riding since March.







hilly
WA, 7492 posts
15 Aug 2024 10:30AM
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US$1000 plus shipping plus import duties plus GST. Would be close to AU$2000. Wow you do not get much for that.

Flysurfer Peak 5 is AU$1000 including GST.
Less secondhand www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~kj-q6/Flysurfer-Peak-4-Single-Skin-5-metre.aspx?_page=1&search=6A8gmMqiauZqNvOmaZOoNA%3D%3D

NicoDC
212 posts
15 Aug 2024 3:23PM
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Looks like this guy had a blast on his flysurfer hybrid. Maybe some brand will come up with a similar design for downwinding.

?si=SryfrBYxZK7Bx8KM

CFL Foiler
113 posts
15 Aug 2024 4:45PM
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Select to expand quote
NicoDC said..
Looks like this guy had a blast on his flysurfer hybrid. Maybe some brand will come up with a similar design for downwinding.
?si=SryfrBYxZK7Bx8KM


while I am sure he had fun that does not look appealing or equivalent. would much rather just wing. Loved my peaks but wings are better for depowered swell riding. The whole attraction of the pocket wing and para wing is a design you can easily stuff away in a pack while riding. The peaks bridles are just not designed for that as they are quite long.

Frankieboy
108 posts
15 Aug 2024 5:09PM
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Select to expand quote
KB7 said..
Just when I thought I had all the foiling gear I need. If this works as shown and I believe it will for anyone with good skills it opens up yet another segment of foiling.

I have been using my downwind board allot doing upwind downwind runs with a small wing flagged out it's good fun but the wing gets in the way and restricts freedom and it's kind of cheating due to the added assist from windage on the wing. I've tried deflating the wing and paddling up which was not fun resulting in long section paddling back in less than ideal bumps.

This Parawing solves that problem and opens up so many places with less than ideal DW conditions, just crank upwind, pack away and you can have a proper go trying to connect and pump sections without a wing or paddle in you hands with the security of getting back on foil easily when you come down.

So I'm all in but just tried to buy the 4m and hit the same problem as when I tried to buy one his BRM cloud kites 5 years ago . Only available to ship to USA addresses, yes I could ship to a relative in Palo Alto but that just adds cost. I know he is a small operation and is probably happy living a chill life on Maui selling a few hundred products a year to US customers . (Who wouldn't be)

For the rest of us let's hope that brands like Ozone and flysurfer will launch something similar soon.


he ships for free in the US so It doesn't make any difference, I guess it would be even cheaper to get it from Palo Alto as a "present" without having to pay duties and taxes...

Gorgo
VIC, 5052 posts
15 Aug 2024 7:18PM
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Here is another photo of the modified Peak. It's taken from a German forum: oaseforum.de/showthread.php?t=185835

I'm guessing that where the yellow line on the bar is there used to be the pulleys and stuff on the lower part of the bridle.

Basically the guy doing it is a committed tinkerer. He's been working on the process and how to use it for a while and getting good results. He reckons it's not a plug and play thing, which hopefully the BRM wing will be. Apparently the handles are some nunchuks he had lying around. I think he can separate them to use as handles.

I think the BRM configuration (single skin, short bridles, low aspect) is probably optimal for downwind riding and surfing and stuff. I can imagine a more freeride oriented wing with bits and pieces of self-draining ram air structures (leading edge, tips, ribs and stuff). I'm not all that committed to packing down and wave riding, but a compact self-inflating wing would be very handy.

cornwallis
155 posts
15 Aug 2024 8:19PM
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Would a kite point better than a wing? Wondering if there is something to using a peak with short lines that I can go steep angles upwind, stow it and send back downwind, I don't mind if it takes 2-3min to pack it, I just don't want to use a wing, but the idea packing and launching a kite and associated tangling doesn't appeal

Grantmac
2190 posts
16 Aug 2024 1:00AM
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That Street Star looks far better in the air.
Seems like this is going to be a hot market where the actual materials aren't as costly as a wing.

MidAtlanticFoil
742 posts
16 Aug 2024 1:49AM
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Tangled up my 4M Parawing my first time practicing the pack up/stuff in the belt, so I quickly figured out how to NOT pack it lol (not sure how I even managed to tangle it). Then I took it out cruising on my onewheel and found a bit of breeze on the coast and was able to pack and relaunch without issue. Pretty cool to just toss it up in the air and see it take flight.

CFL Foiler
113 posts
16 Aug 2024 2:04AM
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Select to expand quote
MidAtlanticFoil said..
Tangled up my 4M Parawing my first time practicing the pack up/stuff in the belt, so I quickly figured out how to NOT pack it lol (not sure how I even managed to tangle it). Then I took it out cruising on my onewheel and found a bit of breeze on the coast and was able to pack and relaunch without issue. Pretty cool to just toss it up in the air and see it take flight.


Sounds like you didn't have much wind to answer this question but would you agree the parawing had equivalent power to a 4m hand wing?

stoked for you and your new toy. Planning to use a dw board with the Parawing on the water or something smaller?

MidAtlanticFoil
742 posts
16 Aug 2024 2:49AM
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Select to expand quote
CFLKiter said..


MidAtlanticFoil said..
Tangled up my 4M Parawing my first time practicing the pack up/stuff in the belt, so I quickly figured out how to NOT pack it lol (not sure how I even managed to tangle it). Then I took it out cruising on my onewheel and found a bit of breeze on the coast and was able to pack and relaunch without issue. Pretty cool to just toss it up in the air and see it take flight.




Sounds like you didn't have much wind to answer this question but would you agree the parawing had equivalent power to a 4m hand wing?

stoked for you and your new toy. Planning to use a dw board with the Parawing on the water or something smaller?



Felt similar in power, but more elusive, but really not enough wind to check it out (0-8mph probably).
I'm planning on using with my DW board to aid in my DW Sup journey and also to target my favorite zones with upwind / downwind laps. I have some great tidal spots near the mouth of the Chesapeake bay that will absolutely fire chest high bumps for a few hundred yards with no good exit below, so winging has been the only option until now.

I've resisted the wing up wind deflate downwind because that sounds like a nightmare so this might be perfect for me Also to be able to get out into the eye of the wind for more efficient downwind practice.


also a new learning curve To tackle!

BWalnut
569 posts
16 Aug 2024 4:48AM
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MidAtlanticFoil
742 posts
16 Aug 2024 6:12AM
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?si=Zl3BGbXUYZTNFZbb

Gorgo
VIC, 5052 posts
16 Aug 2024 11:40AM
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A couple of random thoughts.

That video highlights one of the big attractions of wing foiling. There's always something new to learn and most of those things are not all that hard to do.

The short lines will be easy enough to untangle, they're short and you can see them from end to end. If the front lines were a different colour (say red) all you have to do is hold the bar in one hand, then clear any single front line from the bar to the wing and 99% of the time all the lines will be clear. At worst clearing two front lines will do the job.

It would be a massive bummer to not stow your wing properly and have it fall out while you're ripping downwind. Maybe wear the belt wing forward while you're downwinding.

The guy in the video talks about the big power surge when you throw the wing out. I wonder if that would be enough to do a water start on a long kite/wing foilboard with straps?

Microsurfer
141 posts
16 Aug 2024 12:07PM
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Great video & review. All good but I think I'd still have my paddle ninja turtled on my back just in case.

patronus
442 posts
16 Aug 2024 4:42PM
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Is there a problem balancing on knees in choppy seas waiting for a gust?

StephenZ
VIC, 89 posts
16 Aug 2024 11:18PM
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The term gamechanger gets bandied around too often in foiling conversations, but seems like it might be deserving.This looks like it truly unlocks the promise of downwind winging.

I've had mixed success with DW sup foiling, making some good progress, but getting injured at the end of summer, and only now feeling like I can tentatively start paddling again. This was the final capitulation in getting a Foildrive. For DW, this comes with advantages, but no question, you can feel the heft, at least I can. So it will never be more than a DW tool for me (though really enjoying it for the surf).

Here in windy Cape Town, we have some epic DW conditions, but I feel like I'm still a long way from making the most of it with a paddle, especially on the Millers side, which is closer to where I live, and injuries and general body niggles have been a consistent theme.

BRM is a small lean operation, it's pretty much just Greg, no payroll, not much marketing, no team riders, not even much of a social media presence, mainly word of mouth. He definitely doesn't need to follow any regular release cycles, he only releases stuff that really moves the bar. So when he comes up with something totally new it's usually something special. This is not Greg hype it's just giving credit where it's due. Of course I'm partial to BRM, they've met my wind propulsion needs for most of the last 10 years, starting with the cloud C.5 kites. Greg doesn't care about top speeds, VMG upwind or jump height. He really cares most about simplicity, usability and freedom on the water. I still have a quiver of Ds and the W1 and W2 wings. I'm still very happy flying my W1's, they flutter a bit, but are still well behaved and enjoyable to fly 4 years later, much of it with intense usage. How many can say that of their floppy handle jellyfish 2020 wings? I still love my 2018 D kites, and though I don't kitefoil much, love it when I do.

I pulled the trigger on a 2.9m + the belt. That's definitely the money size here - I'm almost always on my 2.2 or 3, hardly ever use the 4 these days. $900+ USD seems pretty steep for a glorified hanky, and many will balk at the cost. I certainly did, but I justify it on the grounds that I haven't had to buy a wing in 3 years, the cloud wings have served me so well, the W2s are nowhere near needing a refresh. You're paying for the fact that it's a niche market and of course the dozens of prototypes and hours and hours of tweaking and tuning to finally bring a truly viable UW-DW product to market. Who can begrudge him the reward for that.

There's two ways this could go. Either it works great and it catches on like crazy. Then a bunch of others will copy what he's done and a bunch of new products will arrive, iteratively refine and improve and bring down costs (but in the meantime it's totally sold out for months, Greg makes limited size batches of things). Or not. As was the case with the strutless kites, they were the only thing of it's kind going for years, nobody tried or succeeded in copying for ages. Gong tried. In the end Slingshot finally brought out the UFOs (don't know if they are better, they are what Fred Hope rides, so can't be too bad) and also the single skin Peaks, which is what I would probably be riding by now if I still kitefoiled seriously. Also as is the case with Foildrive, for many years waiting for competition to arrive to bring down the price. It never arrived. In spite of the high price, they are the only game in town, you'd take a big risk to buy a foil assist from anyone but them. Either way I'm ok with it, I've seen enough to know that this is the future for me. DW Sup foiling is still a goal, but it's no longer the be-all-and-end-all.

With the inflatable strutless kites finally giving way for single skin peaks for the purest freeride kitefoiling experience, it's somehow fitting that inflatable wings go the same way for the purest and freest winging experience.

Sorry for the ramble!

CFL Foiler
113 posts
16 Aug 2024 9:58PM
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Select to expand quote
StephenZ said..
With the inflatable strutless kites finally giving way for single skin peaks for the purest freeride kitefoiling experience, it's somehow fitting that inflatable wings go the same way for the purest and freest winging experience.




Good point! I never looked back at LEIs once I got my Peaks. No more bladders! Wonder if this will do the same for winging, at least for the DW and wave riding scene. Very tempted to pull the trigger but I am still enjoying my FD and I am not ready for another toy just yet. But I no longer have any doubts, I will own one of these some day.

Looking forward to seeing some 5m videos, interested to see the ease of pack down on a wing that size while riding. That may push me over the edge if it looks manageable.

MProject04
555 posts
16 Aug 2024 10:22PM
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I imagine some of these brands who have their kids/trainer kites, looking now at how to launch their own versions of the same!




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"New BRM Parawing just launched" started by MidAtlanticFoil