Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

America's Cup

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Created by evlPanda > 9 months ago, 8 Sep 2013
Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
16 Sep 2013 10:24AM
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Ian K said..
Why don't they pedal the grinders? Against the rules?

interesting indeed concept...much more power that cranking by hand... but on another hand designers possibly didn't saw that lack of control power as limiting factor in first place.
As mentioned above there are more and more surfaces that could be alternated and controlled and one with the tilting mast/wing to the sides , could be one of them but definitely cranking by hand will not be sufficient...
Possibly dilemma if that competition is about human strength / endurance or boat ideal design is not yet solved.
Next problem is crew running from side to side. At this speeds is become dangerous. So next design could incorporate maybe permanent sits for whole crew with ability to move them from side to side if their mass still could do any difference at rising area surfaces.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
16 Sep 2013 8:58AM
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Ted the Kiwi said..

Thats a kit of finger nails for me to bite into.......still a long way to go. But its better to have to win 2 than the amount Oracle need but I not feeling overly confident - not by a long shot. I remember when your lot was down 3-1 and came back!!!


Good onya Ted. That 2nd race had it all on the line for the Kiwis. I saw you'd posted earlier but didn't didn't read it, watched the live feed on delay. Would still back the Kiwis. Only just, it might all be still be hanging in race 17.

JayBee
NSW, 714 posts
16 Sep 2013 10:59AM
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Wasn't race 10 just the best sailing you have ever seen on TV?????????

Darkspi
SA, 171 posts
16 Sep 2013 12:21PM
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just me but i wouldn't think tilting the mast would be practicable. Think telescoped opposition hydrofoil _|__ __|_ where the outter hydrofoil could be telescoped back in to the main one to adjust for lean

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
16 Sep 2013 1:12PM
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Darkspi said..

just me but i wouldn't think tilting the mast would be practicable. Think telescoped opposition hydrofoil _|__ __|_ where the outter hydrofoil could be telescoped back in to the main one to adjust for lean

IMO the opposite hydrofoil could be used as "counterweight" when submerged, pulling flying in the air hull close to water again.
But that need further increase of the wing sail area or stronger wind to compensate for increased water resistance.
I guess simple model simulation could answer if there is additional gain in the delicate balance between sail size and boat stability.
At this moment looks like maximum power is limited gravity alone and further progress could be made only by increasing beam _ boat width.

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
16 Sep 2013 2:37PM
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Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
16 Sep 2013 2:40PM
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evlPanda said..



Quick reflex on Oracle !

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
16 Sep 2013 4:53PM
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Lucky Oracle didn't lose anyone overboard.

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
16 Sep 2013 6:27PM
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1500 $ vs 15 000 000 $

WA71
WA, 1382 posts
16 Sep 2013 4:39PM
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^^ That was super cool Sean

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
16 Sep 2013 4:39PM
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seanhogan said..

1500 $ vs 15 000 000 $




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seanhogan said..

1500 $ vs 15 000 000 $



"How many Guys can say " Hey I've beaten Kai Lenny " forget about the stuff we're using " We may be barracking for the Kiwis but the Oracle skipper comes with with some good lines.

WA71
WA, 1382 posts
16 Sep 2013 4:40PM
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Ian K said..
seanhogan said..



1500 $ vs 15 000 000 $



seanhogan said..



1500 $ vs 15 000 000 $





"How many Guys can say " Hey I've beaten Kai Lenny " forget about the stuff we're using " We may be barracking for the Kiwis but the Oracle skipper comes with with some good lines.


Isnt he an Aussie anyway?

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
16 Sep 2013 7:16PM
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How do they maintain a steady attitude when the hulls are out of the water? Is there an adjustable horizontal underwater surface that must be constantly trimmed?

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
16 Sep 2013 7:34PM
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Harrow said..

How do they maintain a steady attitude when the hulls are out of the water? Is there an adjustable horizontal underwater surface that must be constantly trimmed?

Usually hydrofoils had this problem resolved in very simple mechanical way , lever floating in the front.
But here apparently on AC72 that must be controlled manually by the crew

#t=12

That could be anohter expample of the couple thousand $$ boat the could compete with Oracle even today.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
16 Sep 2013 7:36PM
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Harrow said..

How do they maintain a steady attitude when the hulls are out of the water? Is there an adjustable horizontal underwater surface that must be constantly trimmed?


I find I keep a steady attitude by being mentally prepared.

PS - they can trim the foils tilt forward or back and I think they've worked on the angle of the foil to improve the upwind performance. It's the same principle with the foiling moths only on a much grander scale. There's a vid I posted on the first page that succinctly explains all.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
16 Sep 2013 5:40PM
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Harrow said..

How do they maintain a steady attitude when the hulls are out of the water? Is there an adjustable horizontal underwater surface that must be constantly trimmed?



The whole centreboard/foil can be raked fore and aft but 'm not sure how quickly. There's a horizontal foil on the rudders that might be easier to trim quickly. There's also a bit of self-leveling in the design. The vertical section of the centre boards is not quite vertical so provides some lift, more when the hull is low and less if it gets too high. The tip of the lifting part of the foils also bends a little above horizontal so the tip clears the water and loses lift if the hull gets too high for an even stronger phase of self-leveling. Don't worry, we're all laying awake at night trying to think how this all could be best adapted to windsurfers.

Macroscien
QLD, 6806 posts
16 Sep 2013 8:43PM
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There is inheritant danger associated with hydrofoils.
I thought about this problem when trying to convert my electric catamaran on hydrofoil .
When you hit any obstacle floating in he water (log, buoy, tree) or even sandbank ( on our G.C) something must give up, but such failure could be catastrophic.
Flying debris could knife the crew easy. Unlike ordinary hull design that slide over hydrofoils works like hooks.

da vecta
QLD, 2512 posts
16 Sep 2013 11:41PM
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Ian K said..

"How many Guys can say " Hey I've beaten Kai Lenny " forget about the stuff we're using " We may be barracking for the Kiwis but the Oracle skipper comes with with some good lines.



...but only because he wasn't on a windsurfer.

seanhogan
QLD, 3424 posts
17 Sep 2013 6:36AM
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you'd need A² or Bjorn to compete with those speeds, not a featherweight like Kai.....

evlPanda
NSW, 9202 posts
17 Sep 2013 1:13PM
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Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
17 Sep 2013 9:02PM
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How do I watch the race in the morning? Is there a live internet broadcast somewhere?

Wineman
NSW, 1412 posts
17 Sep 2013 9:19PM
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Paul, try this & set up tonight to watch in the morning

forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/forum/23-americas-cup-anarchy/

.
.
.
.
"Sailing Anarchy" could almost be a nom-de-plume for almost all of SeaBreeze

details:
"How To Watch America's Cup On Youtube Regardless of Restrictions"

forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?s=ec87359634c510d11c25f21b7980edb5&showtopic=136478

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
17 Sep 2013 9:47PM
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Harrow said...
How do I watch the race in the morning? Is there a live internet broadcast somewhere?


Just click on evlpanda's link in his original post at 6 tomorrow morning. Hit the live link for races 11 & 12.

D Day for OTUSA.

EDIT - better still here's the link

CJW
NSW, 1718 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:07PM
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Harrow said..

How do I watch the race in the morning? Is there a live internet broadcast somewhere?


Really dude? Youtube, google it :P

ploppy
QLD, 167 posts
17 Sep 2013 10:11PM
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Just make sure you watch the racing first before reading about the result here.

Ian K
WA, 4048 posts
17 Sep 2013 8:48PM
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ploppy said..

Just make sure you watch the racing first before reading about the result here.


Yes that's the way to do it. The last race was really edge of the seat stuff. You know it would not be at all out of the realms of possibility that Oracle wins both races tomorrow. Then we'll have a competition.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
18 Sep 2013 7:35AM
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I never would have thought I would be wishing for the wind to die down. Ted, you must be a basket case

Harrow
NSW, 4521 posts
18 Sep 2013 10:05AM
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Cancelled due to 'high' winds? How can 20 knots be the upper limit? We usually sit on the beach waiting until the NE builds to 20 knots!

Would have been the most exciting race day so far.

sausage
QLD, 4873 posts
18 Sep 2013 10:35AM
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Harrow said..

Cancelled due to 'high' winds? How can 20 knots be the upper limit? We usually sit on the beach waiting until the NE builds to 20 knots!

Would have been the most exciting race day so far.



If you had been following the LV Cup, all the teams agreed on reducing the upper wind limit from 33knots to 23knots (which gets adjusted due to tidal flow) after Artemis flipped and British sailor Andrew Simpson was killed. I'm sure they all want to race but safety comes first and fore most for event organisers.


www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-05-09/british-sailor-simpson-dies-in-america-s-cup-training-accident

noticeboard.americascup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/RN189-USCG-Event-Permit.pdf
noticeboard.americascup.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/SF-13-1035-1039.pdf

JayBee
NSW, 714 posts
18 Sep 2013 10:48AM
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The top wind limit depends on the current (up to three knots today I believe). When Andrew Simpson was killed a number of safety measures were introduced, a lowering of the wind limits was one of them.

They dont want people to die.

JB



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"America's Cup" started by evlPanda