Skepticism and critical thinking

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remery said..

Finally you post a link to a video worth watching. Comments from a medical professional. I think you are finally getting it.

Yeah, that's what I thought too, so I double-checked and then understood why he posted that link. (Good that he can actually properly post links!)

As for 'sudden death' whenever I hear of a gym junkie suddenly dying, I am a bit cynical. I think steroids have become normalised these days and these guys get into them ignoring the possible side-effects.

Similarly there would have been people that 'died suddenly' when I was growing up. It was just one of those things and without the internet to easily spread discussions between kooks, it was just one of those unlucky things.

I think in this story, this poor girl just had an underlying condition and despite her otherwise good health, it kicked in. Our species is not perfect and lots of people die before old-age.

But congrats for PM33 being able to post a link!

I'm pretty sure I heard one of the Olympic comentators say that one of the triathletes had a pacemaker fitted.

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FormulaNova said..

How many people 50 years ago were superfit and trying some of these sports, yet now a lot of people assume that they can.

50 years ago I was in the thick of some epic yellow sand boondie wars with the neighbourhood. I knew I was superfit by the amount of kids I sent home with brickies yellow sand in their eyes, ears and nose. Everyday was a decathlon of events such as running, throwing, cycling and even some swimming. There were a lot of disciplinary tribunals that were massively unfair. ( the lady down the road was the worst offender. She had so many kids it was a wonder she was so attached to them all. ). Any health problems I have now are due to yellow sand clogging up the works,... otherwise I would be in Paris right now for sure.

Edit: for those unsure of what a sand boondie actually is, there is a good description here in the local rag. www.thebelltowertimes.com/boondies/

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psychojoe said..

Brent in Qld said..
As a side bar, check out this link about heart conditions in extreme athletes.

Got an interest as a couple of my old mates went on to do triathlons+ironman stuff that work the heart consistently at high rates. Both stopped when they started sensing bad juju, also Greg Welsh going through endless heart surgies was a bit of a wake up call. Seems doing cardio intense activities will highlight any underlying issues. I rode with a bloke who use to do 3-400km a week for 10-15yrs, insanely fast rider to keep up with but ended up with a pacemaker installed in his early 40s. Possibly genetics, possibly wore out his heart!

www.triathlete.com/culture/from-the-heart/

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

I have iron oxide in my blood??

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psychojoe said..

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

You have me - I can't figure out what the abrasive is called. Can you give me a clue?

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FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

Brent in Qld said..
As a side bar, check out this link about heart conditions in extreme athletes.

Got an interest as a couple of my old mates went on to do triathlons+ironman stuff that work the heart consistently at high rates. Both stopped when they started sensing bad juju, also Greg Welsh going through endless heart surgies was a bit of a wake up call. Seems doing cardio intense activities will highlight any underlying issues. I rode with a bloke who use to do 3-400km a week for 10-15yrs, insanely fast rider to keep up with but ended up with a pacemaker installed in his early 40s. Possibly genetics, possibly wore out his heart!

www.triathlete.com/culture/from-the-heart/

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

I have iron oxide in my blood??

I bloody hope so Worst Dad pun today. (Not sure if you were being serious. I thought not, but just in case haemoglobin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin)

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fangman said..

psychojoe said..

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

You have me - I can't figure out what the abrasive is called. Can you give me a clue?

Sure. Here's a link to industrial abrasives.
I'm sure you're aware that copper is used by the liver to form ceruloplasmin which protects against abrasion. No surprise that alcoholics suffer heart attacks and strokes since they keep their liver busy elsewhere.

calumite.co.uk/calumite-as-an-abrasive/

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psychojoe said..
It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

Thank you for that astute cardiovascular observation. Have you considered sharing your findings with Associate Professor Adam Brown?

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FormulaNova said..

I think we might have reached a plateau where we have learned optimum training, diet, and physiology. We then find out that not all our bodies are built to handle some things. After all, we really are only evolved to get to reproduction age and anything after that is a bonus.

I was talking to a cycling buddy and I think he finally realised that even if you train more, at some point your body lets you down and you cannot get any further. It's not even related to the effort you put in. Some people can just go further than others for whatever reason.

How many people 50 years ago were superfit and trying some of these sports, yet now a lot of people assume that they can.

Its about the massive increase in heart issues especially amongst the young since the rollout.


odysee.com/@The_HighWire:1/UNEXPLAINED-COLLAPSES-CONTINUE-IN-2023:b

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Pcdefender said..

Its about the massive increase in heart issues especially amongst the young since the rollout.

No its not. You are making stuff up. Again.

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fangman said..

psychojoe said..

fangman said..

psychojoe said..

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

You have me - I can't figure out what the abrasive is called. Can you give me a clue?

Sure. Here's a link to industrial abrasives.
I'm sure you're aware that copper is used by the liver to form ceruloplasmin which protects against abrasion. No surprise that alcoholics suffer heart attacks and strokes since they keep their liver busy elsewhere.

calumite.co.uk/calumite-as-an-abrasive/

Ok got it. Thanks for that. Since I work with abrasives I am always keen to find out if I am at risk. Can I assume the risk comes from inhaling it?

If you're concerned about inhalation, refer to your product MSDS. My concern here is too much alcohol, too much fructose, not enough copper, not enough fibre, not enough vitamin K2. And then add hypertension or some extreme workouts and a lack of r and r, and it's probably a recipe for abrasion at the junctions in the arteries.

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FormulaNova said..

fangman said..

FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

Brent in Qld said..
As a side bar, check out this link about heart conditions in extreme athletes.

Got an interest as a couple of my old mates went on to do triathlons+ironman stuff that work the heart consistently at high rates. Both stopped when they started sensing bad juju, also Greg Welsh going through endless heart surgies was a bit of a wake up call. Seems doing cardio intense activities will highlight any underlying issues. I rode with a bloke who use to do 3-400km a week for 10-15yrs, insanely fast rider to keep up with but ended up with a pacemaker installed in his early 40s. Possibly genetics, possibly wore out his heart!

www.triathlete.com/culture/from-the-heart/

It's as though people don't understand that iron carries oxygen through blood, calcium also travels through blood, calcium and iron form an industrial abrasive.

I have iron oxide in my blood??

I bloody hope so Worst Dad pun today. (Not sure if you were being serious. I thought not, but just in case haemoglobin: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemoglobin)

It was sort of a joke in that just having iron in your blood and oxygen in your blood, does not necessarily make it iron oxide in your blood. Psychoejoe's approach seems to suggest everything just all combines, which I doubt it does. I just scanned the wiki entry and I am still not sure if there is iron oxide or not. I don't think so though. I can't imagine that a reaction of that type could occur in the human body and then be readily reversed to release the oxygen.

Last week I tried to donate plasma again. My haemoglobin is always high. They used to call it 'iron level' and now they call it haemoglobin level. The annoying thing last week was that my plasma turned red, in that the red blood cells got into the plasma through the filter. Apparently when something is not quite right with the machine, the red blood cells can break and sneak through the filter. Ruining the plasma donation and making it a bit of a waste of time. So, yes, I understand what haemoglobin essentially is and the colour

Yes you are right, it's not iron oxide that gets Twiggy excited, but the oxygen does bind at the ferrous atom.
As for K2 I first heard of it in a dental publication as it turns out a Canadian dentist was the instrumental in its discovery. Here is an neat little summary of his travels:
"...mild-mannered Dr. Weston Price, a Canadian with a small dental practice in Ohio, wondered why so many of his patients had terrible teeth. He hypothesized that there was something about the rapidly modernizing diet that was linked to declining dental health. Dr. Price sought out pre-industrial populations scattered across the globe in an effort to study this relationship between tooth decay and nutrition.In a series of perilous expeditions, he made his way to remote villages in the mountainous pockets of Switzerland, settlements along the rugged coasts of the Outer Hebrides, and the archipelagos of the South Pacific. He travelled with the nomadic Masai of Tanzania and the Nuer of the South Sudan, New Zealand Maori, the Inuit of Alaska and the tribes of the Peruvian Amazon and Andes. He observed that populations that maintained their traditional diet did not suffer from the tooth decay or malocclusion that was rampant back home. Instead, he found square jaws with neat, straight rows of teeth. When the same families were introduced to common processed foods, they would develop cavities and dental decay. Armed with a camera, he would take photos of siblings - where the older child was raised on a traditional indigenous diet and the younger living on imported foods. Where the first child would have well formed dental arches, the second would have many misaligned teeth.
It was a predictable pattern, and in addition, Price noticed several other symptoms of declining health, such as slow healing bone fractures.His fieldwork throughout the 1920s and 1930s yielded over 15,000 such stark photographs. When he returned, he detailed his ethnographic and nutritional studies in a book called Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Without the benefit of our understanding of modern nutrition, Price hypothesized that these declines in dental health were not the result of some toxin in American diet, but the "absence of some essential factors". He tested and analyzed thousands of samples of traditional foods for their nutritional content and compared them to common foods of the time. What he found was that many of the traditional foods, like fish eggs and the butterfat of grass-fed cows, were rich in fat-soluble nutrients. He deduced that there was some activator or catalyst in the fat-rich diet that allowed the body to make use of other macronutrients like minerals. One activator had a significant affect on the health of bones and teeth, but since he could not identify or chemically isolate it, he labelled it as Activator X.For years, physicians and nutritionists debated what this mystery Activator X could be. Some thought it might be a kind of essential fatty acid like EPA. Sixty years after Activator X was first mentioned, researchers now believe Activator X to be vitamin K2."

Weird co incidence? This just popped up in another forum I was reading.

How do you 'reduce the stupid'? You would need a very large cauldron for that wouldn't you? Then you would start arguing about whether it would be coal powered, natural gas, or run from green electricity.

You wanted Dad jokes didn't you?

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FormulaNova said..

Dihydrogen monoxide?! I am obviously worried about that. It is clearly explosive and known as hydric acid, surely dangerous to us. I thought the movie Alien was made up, but surely a sign of too much hydric acid??

But the real thing I worry about is Sodium. The media often talk about not adding sodium to your diet, not eating too much sodium, but still somehow it gets into us. That stuff is dangerous!

Combine Sodium with the Dihydrogen monoxide, and ....

I can vouch for that, I conducted that experiment with some high school students almost 50 years ago. I cleared the first few rows of students so I was the only one who's hair caught fire. The kids applauded and declared it the best lab prac ever.