But surely those vulnerable people will be vaxxed ?
I don't see Pcdefender (and similar people) as a threat to me. They are are few and far between and just different. Variety is the spice of life.
Are you afraid of Pcdefender ?
Just seems to me that all your arguments about how 'dangerous' PCdefender is and what threat similar people pose to society is whipped up by the hype-woke crowd who need something to fear to justify their own victimhood. Succuming to that argument and getting offensive about it is going full-Trump, just from the otherside.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..D3 said..
.....Independent of the mandate issue.
Yep, but in this case I don't know that the definition of 'safe' can be assessed independant of the mandate issue.
'Safe' is going to be different for everyone and everyone's situation. A fit, healthy person in their early thirties travelling remote areas of WA and sleeping in a van with little contact with other people will have a different assessment of 'safe and effective' than a 80 year old in a busy old folks home, mingling with multiple other old folks who have covid.
Up above it is mentioned 251 severe reactions in 47 million doses. It is also mentioned the oral polio vax is no longer used because of the risk of polio developing from that was unsafe, said to be 1 in 2.4 million risk. So 251 in 47 million is 13 times a bigger risk than what is considered unsafe.
Different people, different situations will have different assessments. The mandate was a mandate. It didn't consider different situations.
People should take responsibility for their own actions. That includes assessing the risk and the reward. The risk of being in lockdown for ever if we didn't get to 95% or people having two doses is a pretty big weighting to one side. You can't just ignore that now because it is convenient to forget about it as having any weighting in the argument.
I'd like to think I'm not ignoring or trying to rewrite what happened.
Before mid 21 I really didn't think mandates were going to be used, I just assumed that everyone would jump at the chance.
But between the effectiveness of restricting international travel and the shotshow that was government advice plus some serious misinformation and FUD spreading by deliberate bad actor's, it became apparent that vaccine uptake was going to stay pretty low.
Unfortunately, just focussing on trying to protect vulnerable populations while letting the rest of the population do as they saw fit, wasn't going to work very well at reducing healthcare system burden and mortality.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
But surely those vulnerable people will be vaxxed ?
I don't see Pcdefender (and similar people) as a threat to me. They are are few and far between and just different. Variety is the spice of life.
Are you afraid of Pcdefender ?
Just seems to me that all your arguments about how 'dangerous' PCdefender is and what threat similar people pose to society is whipped up by the hype-woke crowd who need something to fear to justify their own victimhood. Succuming to that argument and getting offensive about it is going full-Trump, just from the otherside.
Just because someone is not part of the most vulnerable in our population does not mean they are Invulnerable.
That essentially the whole GBD premise.
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..
But surely those vulnerable people will be vaxxed ?
I don't see Pcdefender (and similar people) as a threat to me. They are are few and far between and just different. Variety is the spice of life.
Are you afraid of Pcdefender ?
Just seems to me that all your arguments about how 'dangerous' PCdefender is and what threat similar people pose to society is whipped up by the hype-woke crowd who need something to fear to justify their own victimhood. Succuming to that argument and getting offensive about it is going full-Trump, just from the otherside.
And you and everyone else knows, the vaccine is safe and effective, it doesn't protect 100 percent, same as any other vaccine.
I'm not afraid of Pcdefender, but I know plenty of medically vulnerable people and I would prefer he doesn't spread his infestation among them.
I also know plenty of good people who are unfortunately gullible and likely to follow the drivel Pcdefender spouts, to their disadvantage.
Select to expand quoteremery said..psychojoe said..
And that's the big problem. The mandate.
Seat belts are safe and effective. They are also mandated. But very rarely someone gets strangled by the belt in a car rollover.
No worries. My trusty Takada brand airbags will save me.
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
I'd like to think I'm not ignoring or trying to rewrite what happened.
Before mid 21 I really didn't think mandates were going to be used, I just assumed that everyone would jump at the chance.
But between the effectiveness of restricting international travel and the shotshow that was government advice plus some serious misinformation and FUD spreading by deliberate bad actor's, it became apparent that vaccine uptake was going to stay pretty low.
Unfortunately, just focussing on trying to protect vulnerable populations while letting the rest of the population do as they saw fit, wasn't going to work very well at reducing healthcare system burden and mortality.
I think we can blame Trump for much of the misinformation. The conservative American crap posted by many Aussie SB folk is evidence of that.
Excess Death Rates for Republican and Democratic Registered Voters in Florida and Ohio During the COVID-19 Pandemic
JAMA Intern Med. 2023;183(9):916-923. doi:10.1001/jamainternmed.2023.1154
"Key Points
Question Was political party affiliation a risk factor associated with excess mortality during the COVID-19 pandemic in Florida and Ohio?
Findings In this cohort study evaluating 538?159 deaths in individuals aged 25 years and older in Florida and Ohio between March 2020 and December 2021, excess mortality was significantly higher for Republican voters than Democratic voters after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults, but not before. These differences were concentrated in counties with lower vaccination rates, and primarily noted in voters residing in Ohio.
Meaning The differences in excess mortality by political party affiliation after COVID-19 vaccines were available to all adults suggest that differences in vaccination attitudes and reported uptake between Republican and Democratic voters may have been a factor in the severity and trajectory of the pandemic in the US."
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2807617
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
Theirs nothing stopping them from reporting now
Well, there's a couple of things.
Nobody wants to assimilate with the antivax loons, it's been called safe and effective so clearly it is, and they should just keep their white noise to themselves.
And the VAERS is just a rubbish site full of false antivax reports anyway, so what's the point. Why would a grown man waste his time.
Let's not forget, grandma would have died for sure if you didn't roll up your sleeve, your a hero really, heroes don't whinge.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..remery said..psychojoe said..
And that's the big problem. The mandate.
Seat belts are safe and effective. They are also mandated. But very rarely someone gets strangled by the belt in a car rollover.
No worries. My trusty Takada brand airbags will save me.
Is that a Chinese ripoff of a Takata airbag? Don't trust them.
I like how science started the pandemic but everyone blames the unvaccinated for the problem.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
No worries. My trusty Takada brand airbags will save me.
That's another good example. How many people had died from an exploding Takata airbag vs the number of lies they have saved?
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
Well, there's a couple of things.
Nobody wants to assimilate with the antivax loons, it's been called safe and effective so clearly it is, and they should just keep their white noise to themselves.
And the VAERS is just a rubbish site full of false antivax reports anyway, so what's the point. Why would a grown man waste his time.
Let's not forget, grandma would have died for sure if you didn't roll up your sleeve, your a hero really, heroes don't whinge.
So just to be clear:
- You're saying that Pfizer vaccines should have costochondritis listed as a potential adverse reaction.
-But your costochondritis was related to a different vaccine with different technologies and delivery method.
-Other people claim to have had it but haven't reported it.
So how are they supposed to find the signal in the white noise?
- In Australia the TGA uses DAEN, not VAERS
Select to expand quoteFlying Dutchman said..
I like how science started the pandemic but everyone blames the unvaccinated for the problem.
So blaming the correct source will fix the problem?
What is your perspective on what the problem is?
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
So just to be clear:
- You're saying that Pfizer vaccines should have costochondritis listed as a potential adverse reaction.
-But your costochondritis was related to a different vaccine with different technologies and delivery method.
-Other people claim to have had it but haven't reported it.
So how are they supposed to find the signal in the white noise?
- In Australia the TGA uses DAEN, not VAERS
You and your dang alternative facts, why can't everyone just trust Donald Trump. MAGAAAAAAaa.... (cough, gasp, gurgle)
Select to expand quoteFlying Dutchman said..
I like how science started the pandemic but everyone blames the unvaccinated for the problem.
You do realise those supposed anti-vaxxers are most likely vaccinated, healthy and making money out of gullible viewers?
One of the beacons anchored to the Covid lies was the fraudulent hydroxychloroquine study which was retracted after the media heralded it as quackery headed by Orange Man Bad.
Followed very shortly by the Ivermectin saga. There must be tens of millions who've listened to how CNN painted Joe Rogan green to deter the public from thinking.
The truth is seeping out.
Select to expand quotejapie said..
One of the beacons anchored to the Covid lies was the fraudulent hydroxychloroquine study which was retracted after the media heralded it as quackery headed by Orange Man Bad.
Followed very shortly by the Ivermectin saga. There must be tens of millions who've listened to how CNN painted Joe Rogan green to deter the public from thinking.
The truth is seeping out.
No, the truth is not seeping out... Ivermectin is only good for internal parasites not viruses. The conservative public have never been capable of critical thinking. You are an excellent example.
"Thousands of supporters, many of them anti-vaccine activists, have continued to vigorously campaign for ivermectin use, claiming that the real evidence is being ignored. In the context of misinformation infodemics, some sites have published systematic reviews with meta-analysis on the effectiveness of the use of ivermectin in COVID-19 outcomes (ivmmeta.com and Home-FLCCC|Front Line COVID-19 Critical Care Alliance (covid19criticalcare.com) Most reviews have not undergone peer review, do not show the criteria used in the selection of RCT's, do not present records and statistical criteria for evaluating the effect and heterogeneity between studies. According to Roman et al., these sites contribute to misinformation of patients, their families, the general population and health professionals who cannot critically analyze scientific studies."
Systematic review and meta-analysis of ivermectin for treatment of COVID-19: evidence beyond the hype
Published: 23 July 2022
Volume 22, article number 639, (2022)
link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s12879-022-07589-8
Select to expand quoteremery said..japie said..
One of the beacons anchored to the Covid lies was the fraudulent hydroxychloroquine study which was retracted after the media heralded it as quackery headed by Orange Man Bad.
Followed very shortly by the Ivermectin saga. There must be tens of millions who've listened to how CNN painted Joe Rogan green to deter the public from thinking.
The truth is seeping out.
No, the truth is not seeping out... Ivermectin is only good for internal parasites not viruses. The conservative public have never been capable of critical thinking. You are an excellent example.
No! in the conspiracy world, anything proven to be disproven by the mainstream media is clearly a conspiracy. Haven't you figured this out yet?
Select to expand quoteremery said..japie said..
One of the beacons anchored to the Covid lies was the fraudulent hydroxychloroquine study which was retracted after the media heralded it as quackery headed by Orange Man Bad.
Followed very shortly by the Ivermectin saga. There must be tens of millions who've listened to how CNN painted Joe Rogan green to deter the public from thinking.
The truth is seeping out.
No, the truth is not seeping out... Ivermectin is only good for internal parasites not viruses. The conservative public have never been capable of critical thinking. You are an excellent example.
Ive 69 years of experience under my belt and I've developed a keen nose for bull****. I spent my teen years in South Africa. It's like having a sixth sense.
Rest assured that if I knew you were in one of two lifeboats in the face of peril it would be my priority to be in the one you were not in. Not safe.
The loony left has always been consistent in accusing their opposition of behaving the way they do.Its like water off a ducks back. The pejoratives? Same category. Weakens an argument.Both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are effective against viral replication of COVID. vigilantnews.com/post/ivermectin-worked-peer-reviewed-study-finds-74-reduction-in-excess-deaths/
I wonder how many people actually used Ivermectin and HCQ to treat their COVID?
And how many would report any adverse events?
32 reports of Ivermectin adverse events since 1971, 8 just since 2020 alone.
Select to expand quoteFlying Dutchman said..
I like how science started the pandemic but everyone blames the unvaccinated for the problem.
2 minutes in he clearly states there's not enough evidence to say for sure that it was leaked from a lab.
I'll see if can watch the whole thing and catch what evidence he has supporting his position
Edit:
Found his blog, might find it easier to read rather than watch
Select to expand quotejapie said..
Ive 69 years of experience under my belt and I've developed a keen nose for bull****. I spent my teen years in South Africa. It's like having a sixth sense.
Rest assured that if I knew you were in one of two lifeboats in the face of peril it would be my priority to be in the one you were not in. Not safe.
The loony left has always been consistent in accusing their opposition of behaving the way they do.Its like water off a ducks back. The pejoratives? Same category. Weakens an argument.Both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are effective against viral replication of COVID. vigilantnews.com/post/ivermectin-worked-peer-reviewed-study-finds-74-reduction-in-excess-deaths/
Do you have a peer-reviewed study to go with that gibberish?
Select to expand quoteD3 said..
I wonder how many people actually used Ivermectin and HCQ to treat their COVID?
And how many would report any adverse events?
32 reports of Ivermectin adverse events since 1971, 8 just since 2020 alone.
Stupid is as stupid does...
"Despite the FDA and WHO's efforts in alerting the public on several occasions to avoid self-medication, IVM [ivermectin] has been promoted by media outlets and online sites. The wide accessibility of IVM through the internet, tractor supply, tackle and feed shops, likely contributes to the continued reports of toxic exposures. Therefore, there is an urgent need for rapid dissemination of information to the health community and general public regarding the potential for deleterious effects associated with IVM use in the treatment and prevention of COVID-19."
www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15563650.2022.2070187?casa_token=aP0TwB23TScAAAAA%3A66_aY1dD9kWbEb-mP9BpW7Bk4Z1v6xTyb7BR1M-bDwFjqGGy-w5iLnyCF-YVkOJ6lffOdStwCBUtSQ
There are like so many different side effects listed on their websites to the harm these C19 can cause - safe and effective.
It seems to be the vaxxed that are developing a frightening increase in heart problems and cancers.
Then there are all these other strange symptoms that have increased alarmingly since around 2020 - Guillain Barr syndrome, floaters in your eye to name just two. The vax seems to multiply the number of people who suffer from various unusual symptoms.
Since 2020 i have met two others who developed eye problems since taking the vax and heard of lots of others as well who have also recently developed issues with their eyes.
On the various databases from around the world eye issues have been reported often . Safe and effective.
I am more inclined to believe the thousands of reports of harm to the TGA from ordinary Australians than i am from any self funded Big Pharma study but each to their own.
Select to expand quoteremery said..japie said..
Ive 69 years of experience under my belt and I've developed a keen nose for bull****. I spent my teen years in South Africa. It's like having a sixth sense.
Rest assured that if I knew you were in one of two lifeboats in the face of peril it would be my priority to be in the one you were not in. Not safe.
The loony left has always been consistent in accusing their opposition of behaving the way they do.Its like water off a ducks back. The pejoratives? Same category. Weakens an argument.Both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are effective against viral replication of COVID. vigilantnews.com/post/ivermectin-worked-peer-reviewed-study-finds-74-reduction-in-excess-deaths/
Do you have a peer-reviewed study to go with that gibberish?
Which is precisely why you cannot be taken seriously.
Select to expand quotejapie said..remery said..japie said..
One of the beacons anchored to the Covid lies was the fraudulent hydroxychloroquine study which was retracted after the media heralded it as quackery headed by Orange Man Bad.
Followed very shortly by the Ivermectin saga. There must be tens of millions who've listened to how CNN painted Joe Rogan green to deter the public from thinking.
The truth is seeping out.
No, the truth is not seeping out... Ivermectin is only good for internal parasites not viruses. The conservative public have never been capable of critical thinking. You are an excellent example.
Ive 69 years of experience under my belt and I've developed a keen nose for bull****. I spent my teen years in South Africa. It's like having a sixth sense.
Rest assured that if I knew you were in one of two lifeboats in the face of peril it would be my priority to be in the one you were not in. Not safe.
The loony left has always been consistent in accusing their opposition of behaving the way they do.Its like water off a ducks back. The pejoratives? Same category. Weakens an argument.Both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are effective against viral replication of COVID. vigilantnews.com/post/ivermectin-worked-peer-reviewed-study-finds-74-reduction-in-excess-deaths/
With your finely tuned nose for bullshido, maybe you'd like to take a look at the paper the articl you linked to relies on so heavily?
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
There are like so many different side effects listed on their websites to the harm these C19 can cause - safe and effective.
It seems to be the vaxxed that are developing a frightening increase in heart problems and cancers.
Then there are all these other strange symptoms that have increased alarmingly since around 2020 - Guillain Barr syndrome, floaters in your eye to name just two. The vax seems to multiply the number of people who suffer from various unusual symptoms.
Since 2020 i have met two others who developed eye problems since taking the vax and heard of lots of others as well who have also recently developed issues with their eyes.
On the various databases from around the world eye issues have been reported often . Safe and effective.
I am more inclined to believe the thousands of reports of harm to the TGA from ordinary Australians than i am from any self funded Big Pharma study but each to their own.
I you mindless world, nobody got sick before the vaccine was invented.
Select to expand quotePcdefender said..
There are like so many different side effects listed on their websites to the harm these C19 can cause - safe and effective.
It seems to be the vaxxed that are developing a frightening increase in heart problems and cancers.
Then there are all these other strange symptoms that have increased alarmingly since around 2020 - Guillain Barr syndrome, floaters in your eye to name just two. The vax seems to multiply the number of people who suffer from various unusual symptoms.
Since 2020 i have met two others who developed eye problems since taking the vax and heard of lots of others as well who have also recently developed issues with their eyes.
On the various databases from around the world eye issues have been reported often . Safe and effective.
I am more inclined to believe the thousands of reports of harm to the TGA from ordinary Australians than i am from any self funded Big Pharma study but each to their own.
If you're willing to believe the TGA data about vaccine safety, what sources data would you accept for all the "strange symptoms" and apparent increases in heart problems and cancers?
From my personal experience, I've encountered only one other person who has symptoms like OK does. Similar impact on ability to anything. The strange thing is that this person had an AZ dose (not mRNA) and their syndrome? didn't manifest until a year later.
In that intervening period they had: RSV, Flu, Pneumonia, and COVID.
Select to expand quoteremery said..
And you and everyone else knows, the vaccine is safe and effective, it doesn't protect 100 percent, same as any other vaccine.
I'm not afraid of Pcdefender, but I know plenty of medically vulnerable people and I would prefer he doesn't spread his infestation among them.
And you and everyone else knows the vaccine does not stop you spreading or contracting the Covid virus. It reduces the severity of your symptoms.
Did Trump teach you that fake news trick ?
Select to expand quoteCarantoc said..remery said..
And you and everyone else knows, the vaccine is safe and effective, it doesn't protect 100 percent, same as any other vaccine.
I'm not afraid of Pcdefender, but I know plenty of medically vulnerable people and I would prefer he doesn't spread his infestation among them.
And you and everyone else knows the vaccine does not stop you spreading or contracting the Covid virus. It reduces the severity of your symptoms.
Did Trump teach you that fake news trick ?
Its not a fake news trick, it's critical thinking.
