). All that should matter is the angle of the steering head shaft (assuming it has no lead or trail) wouldn't it? Even locating the headstem anywhere on this angled line wouldn't make a difference to the wheel movement (eg: the headstem was 1m from ground level, it would weaken the structure, but the wheels movement stays the same).
). All that should matter is the angle of the steering head shaft (assuming it has no lead or trail) wouldn't it? Even locating the headstem anywhere on this angled line wouldn't make a difference to the wheel movement (eg: the headstem was 1m from ground level, it would weaken the structure, but the wheels movement stays the same).
Makes perfect sense to me
I am also starting to appreciate how well my class5 steering was designed as well
Ron the explanations above should give you the place to attach your steering
As far as the steering geometry goes, if the relative positions of the axle center line and steering pivot center line remain the same I cannot see that there would be any difference in steering behaviour.
The horizontal fork may have less spring or flex than the angled fork which would have to be a good thing.
The main differences I see are that the horizontal fork is easier to fabricate and is ideally suited to a class 5 set up.
The angled fork allows the use of a modified bicycle front fork and is ideally suited to a mini yacht.
Aren't they?
This is a Nice Debate
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Am I to deduce from the above info' that I should place my steering connection somewhere along the Blue Line/Contact Patch Axis??
I tend to agree with Cisco on the Fork Construction lines.
Ron
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On our Promo's the pushrod pivot point is about 25/30mm above and 125mm to the right of steering pivot. It is virtually set and forget type steering, though strong side winds will affect it.
Oh well. I guess I can always change it around if the Cable Pull Pull system and Quadrant aren't satisfactory. I am about to put the control cables to it tomorrow.
What I like about this system at the moment is that the front wheel appears to be able to come right over giving the Razor a tight turning circle. I like to Spin Out and side slide etc. Remember I have now one to race against here though I keep hearing about machines localy but can't understand why I haven't seen them about
I guess time will tell. Pegg's Beach is a top venue for Land YAchting. Years ago they used it for Bike Racing but people got deaded and they banned the practice. I will have to take some pic's and post them.
Ron
Those who said "the angle doesn't make any difference" seem to win the prize.
I built this little 3D model and rotated it around the rod I have representing the steering pivot. no matter how much or little I twisted it or what angle I looked at it from, the "wheels" stayed parallel...and I can sleep again.
Blake
AUS 230, Please be a little more astute in your perception of what you are reading. Just because one may own a Nuclear Bomb dos not mean that he has to use it. Whoever I do admit that they are a pretty thing to see go off.
Why is it that the most beautiful things are so dangerous???? Nuc's, UVA, UVB,Lazer,
Gorgeous Women, Land Yachts etc. 
.
I already said I like doing skids etc. Sure they may well Kill Speed but one doesn't have to do them whilst racing and I am more into fun than serious racing-----------I think.
Now Blake (Don't go to sleep too soon)[}:)]
You seem to be into Computer Prog's that do Real Stuff. Good. Now add a chassis to your 3D model and have the back wheels underpinned to a fixed point the articulate the steering the front wheels should be at a fixed point as well. Do not worry what the wheels are doing but see what the front of the chassis is doing. You may find with your stile of Front Forks there is a little less side ways motion
There are many ways to get to the same end result, I may be wrong. But I do like to apply Occum's Razor where I can.
Ron
Yeah....I can do all that and make it into a video...I'll post it in a couple of months...[}:)]
I don't have a real Cad program. Strata 3d is more for making animations and product illustrations. Getting a bunch of parts to behave like they are attached or pivoting around one point is a challenge (or requires a lot of manual adjusting of things that don't stay attached)
I wish I still had my Blokart; I could set it and the Rocket outside and just take photos of the wheels steering. I'll check the Ludic although I don't know how it sails.
Whatever blokart does, it works. I would frequently forget it had hand steering and start running the sheet with both hands with no disasters.
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Clemco
I tried the Push Rod type. The images show the lever I welded in place for the job. Problem was when I pushed the rod the steering would not travel far enough and became very heavy to move, so much so that the 3/8" arm started to bend. This is no good to me so I am going for AUS230 image posted below Posted - 05/01/2011 : 6:58 pm. Quadrant and cable. It is much lighter more positive and I think will do all I want I believe it is also more proportional to peddle movement/smoother transition. I may have set the push rod in the wrong place but having never seen the Steering set up in real life now never having used the like I have no idea on what to look for. Multi-Sheave
Sheet systems are slow enough to react let alone steering that might be the same due to effort required.
Ron
PS may be one day when some of you experienced guys decide to come to Tas for a Holiday and maybe stay with my wife and I the experience will come along as well
I would suggest get rid of the 3/8" rod. Way too small and heavy. I thought you had just stuck that on so you see the movement of the arc more clearly. Better to use minimum 5/8" stainless tube, and as TP1 suggested adjust the nut on the steering pin to get just enough friction so the wheel doesn't fall over by itself.
Opps sorry Ron, I guess I was just pointing out the frustration that I have had from turning to sharp and not being able to get going again, I will post that pic of the class88
front end on Monday.
Cheers
aus230
I have tried running the wires through pulleys to get a 90 degree leverage on the steering pin. It added so much drag on the wire it was actually worse than a direct connection to the fork. Think about it; 2 wires + 2 pulleys + that quadrant thing. That's 5 things ! Occam would not be impressed.
Occum's Razor dressed up for an outing this arvo, a bit of a shake down
Say what you may about that pully system but I like it. Playing in light wind 12 to 15Kts I couldn't get sufficient speed to do broadsides but enough to make it interesting when getting close to the Chain Mesh Fence I had a couple or 3 hrs play and enjoyed every minute. The only disappointment is I had nobody to operate the camera and Land Yachts tend to get a bit misbehaved without a pilot
I studied the mast and mast Step and they seemed to be perfect Step 0 to no layover, sail full and wrinkle free
Ron
Looks great! Not sure if I've said yet but that seat looks comfortable yet stylish, two thumbs up from me
It seems to me that taking the mounting point away from the " blue line "
makes the action of the front wheel unequal from one side to the other in relation to the pedal movement Whether this matters much or not I am not sure
Probably not
Yes Lads but how heavy is the steering with that system?? From just looking at the system and my experimentation I tend to agree that the steering motion would not be proportional to peddle movement but the quadrant cable pull/pull steering is definitely proportional and smooth transition. I took Occum's Razor on a Shake Down this arvo and and tried to make and am Well pleased with it's behavior. The only way I could get the front or rear for that matter to even look like they were going to break out was to swing sharply (Full Lock) on gravel patches on the Tarmac. I am Highly Peeved that I didn't have a photographer with me. Her in-doors was asleep and you older ones should know that the Wise "Leave Sleeping Tigers Lay" It is probably that cowardly streak in me that will not take the risk on being ripped apart by the NZ/Scot's Baggage.
Hopefully very shortly I may coax her from the Den to deal with my demands.
I also like the feel of those Aircraft Tires, they grip well and don't scuff that easily.
I also must mention that the Steering setup isn't complete yet. That will happen when the sail maker decides to grace us with his presence again.
Ron
I saw this scooter the other day ... nice wheels and tyres 110/80-16
If you notice the steering is very similar to the angle of the layover steering of a landyacht [I think this was once mentioned that it was similar to a bike / motorcycle turning when moving ]
AUS 230
Occum's Razor is same, same not quite. And I'm loving it. The transition through a turn is smooth and clean and the only time it doesn't perform to my liking is when it is moving very slowly, then the turns seem to be wider than I would want. Hey! It may be just the way I perceive them!.. At speed it Handles like Warm Cream.
The Razor is a real Pussy Cat up in 10 to 15kts now I'm looking forward to higher Drafts, something to test our metal . Something that I can get into high speed turns etc.
Ron
That club88 wire steering system with large pulley wheels looks good. I now see that the problem with mine was probably the wheels were much too small and I lost all of the leverage. The quadrant looks a bit bulky but could act as a good mudguard.
May be worth trying on that top yacht Vic.
Hi Clemco,
There are ways and then there are WAYS. I fabricated my Quadrant from scratch. It is much lighter and compact and from bits of lucky scrap I had laying around from other projects. 1 pc 1mm, 1 pc 4mm and 1pce 0.5mm.[}:)] As you see odd bits from which I cut out 2 x 150mm semicircles and 1 140mm semicircle, these I riveted together with some 5mm rod cut to length and riveted each end "The Devil makes use of idle hands" these were ground to tidy them up. From there I fitted them to the top part of the Bicycle Handle Bar Mount. The forked part that fits into the Bicycle Head Set and Presto If your Aunt Had ------(The wear with all)-------She'd be your Uncle
If you need pic's I can Upload them,
Ron
110/80-16
