So a bit more information. Supports my theory of major rigging tension loads on the hull as the starter.
The new info is that the hull was reinforced up to the forward end of the cockpit, and stopped there. Definitely a stress concentration point.
It is also clear that it was only the main cabin area which was initially flooded. The watertight bulkheads stopped the initial flooding from reaching the fore and aft ends.
So my theory is that there was some kind of slow leak from the engine area, and this was confined to the main cabin. So when Tapio woke to a crack noise, the water in the cabin was already up to his knees. This weight in the centre of the boat, caused more sagging loads, (bending of the ends upwards) adding to the rigging sagging loads. This probably caused a crack to occur in the bottom of the hull at the stress concentration point.
Why would the hull crack? A lot of work was done adding bulkheads. For glassing on old surfaces, usually a solvent is applied to key the surface. Maybe a combination of age, fatigue, solvent, stress concentration, and all the tension loads was just too much...
Tapio said that as she sank the rig still looked tight. A long crack only centimetres wide can let in a lot of water. The genoa was still drawing, so it would pull the forestay out, and that can keep the rest of the rig looking tensioned.
Much would depend on how the water-tight bulkheads were attached to the hull. If they were just hard mounted with epoxy fillets there would be stress where there previously would have been some flex. This mod should be done with consultation with the designers [if still alive in this case].
I thought there might have been some discussion on this forum but I can't find anything. www.boatdesign.net/forums/
Thanks Ramona, for your pics of the Aries. Can one still buy one?
But could you tell us about your vang?
Select to expand quoteMuttonBird said..
Thanks Ramona, for your pics of the Aries. Can one still buy one?
But could you tell us about your vang?
The Aries is still being built in Amsterdam. Mine was made in Denmark and the originals where built in Britain. The British made ones are imperial where the others are metric. Still plenty of secondhand ones around and parts for both imperial and metric are readily available. There is a good group page on Facebook and of course the home page.
ariesvanegear.com/?fbclid=IwAR3iD1C8yUzaXWVs96Kcr45pc6ajjBlnoPRxgPe4MDl2q8hRnAngGIKoum4
Interestingly in both the GG races the people using Aries used secondhand ones and in some cases never had them serviced first.
My boom vang is a fairly conventional arrangement but with a boom strut to support the boom while reefing. It's laminated timber with lay ups of epoxy and cloth, some carbon fibre to reinforce the ends.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..MuttonBird said..
Thanks Ramona, for your pics of the Aries. Can one still buy one?
But could you tell us about your vang?
The Aries is still being built in Amsterdam. Mine was made in Denmark and the originals where built in Britain. The British made ones are imperial where the others are metric. Still plenty of secondhand ones around and parts for both imperial and metric are readily available. There is a good group page on Facebook and of course the home page.
ariesvanegear.com/?fbclid=IwAR3iD1C8yUzaXWVs96Kcr45pc6ajjBlnoPRxgPe4MDl2q8hRnAngGIKoum4
Interestingly in both the GG races the people using Aries used secondhand ones and in some cases never had them serviced first.
My boom vang is a fairly conventional arrangement but with a boom strut to support the boom while reefing. It's laminated timber with lay ups of epoxy and cloth, some carbon fibre to reinforce the ends.
Ramona Industries version of this;
www.bartonmarine.com/pdf/2020/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Barton%20Boomstrut.pdf
Select to expand quoter13 said..Ramona said..MuttonBird said..
Thanks Ramona, for your pics of the Aries. Can one still buy one?
But could you tell us about your vang?
The Aries is still being built in Amsterdam. Mine was made in Denmark and the originals where built in Britain. The British made ones are imperial where the others are metric. Still plenty of secondhand ones around and parts for both imperial and metric are readily available. There is a good group page on Facebook and of course the home page.
ariesvanegear.com/?fbclid=IwAR3iD1C8yUzaXWVs96Kcr45pc6ajjBlnoPRxgPe4MDl2q8hRnAngGIKoum4
Interestingly in both the GG races the people using Aries used secondhand ones and in some cases never had them serviced first.
My boom vang is a fairly conventional arrangement but with a boom strut to support the boom while reefing. It's laminated timber with lay ups of epoxy and cloth, some carbon fibre to reinforce the ends.
Ramona Industries version of this;
www.bartonmarine.com/pdf/2020/Fact%20sheet%20-%20Barton%20Boomstrut.pdf
I have considered one of these in the past and apart from being very expensive it seems that the version for my boat at 1.450m is excessively long and would go way further back along the boom than my existing vang. It would also be nowhere near a 45-degree angle (depicted in most of their pictures) as my boom is not very far above the deck/coach house roof. Probably should separate this out into a new thread.
Select to expand quote
ENTRANT UPDATE : Guy Waites Sailing VESSEL : SAGARMATHA UK . LOST RAFT & PLB in KNOCKDOWN.
Position @ 0600 UTC 47? 57.296' S 133? 57.144' E
Vessel GPS SOG: 4.3 knt, GPS COG: 027?
Weather: Gale SWS 38 kn gusting 60 knots 10M SEA
SITUATION : GUY WAITS reported heavy knockdown. 4 Man Liferaft LOST OVERBOARD including manually activated PLB packed inside raft. NOT seen to inflate. Sea conditions VERY HEAVY. Guy reports hard going but all OK onboard. He DOES NOT require any assistance. GGR has declared a CODE ORANGE to monitor all issues and Notified MRCC Australia of PLB LOSS. Wind and wave is not expected to decrease for another 18 Hours. #GGR2022
Select to expand quoteRamona said.. ENTRANT UPDATE : Guy Waites Sailing VESSEL : SAGARMATHA UK . LOST RAFT & PLB in KNOCKDOWN.
Position @ 0600 UTC 47? 57.296' S 133? 57.144' E
Vessel GPS SOG: 4.3 knt, GPS COG: 027?
Weather: Gale SWS 38 kn gusting 60 knots 10M SEA
SITUATION : GUY WAITS reported heavy knockdown. 4 Man Liferaft LOST OVERBOARD including manually activated PLB packed inside raft. NOT seen to inflate. Sea conditions VERY HEAVY. Guy reports hard going but all OK onboard. He DOES NOT require any assistance. GGR has declared a CODE ORANGE to monitor all issues and Notified MRCC Australia of PLB LOSS. Wind and wave is not expected to decrease for another 18 Hours. #GGR2022
Isn't that a fair bit further south than they are allowed to be?
Also as he has missed the Hobart gate by a country mile isn't he in Chichester class or worse? Does that allow him to pull in and pick up a life raft or is he totally out anyway?
Certainly wouldn't fancy the horn in a couple of months with no liferaft.
Select to expand quoteKinora said..
... I'm looking for a wind vane system and would appreciate the guidance.
K.
How bout this on Facebook Marketplace.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Kinora said..
... I'm looking for a wind vane system and would appreciate the guidance.
K.
How bout this on Facebook Marketplace.
Thanks, Jules. I have contacted the seller.
Cheers,
Kinora
Select to expand quoteKinora said..julesmoto said..Kinora said..
... I'm looking for a wind vane system and would appreciate the guidance.
K.
How bout this on Facebook Marketplace.
Thanks, Jules. I have contacted the seller.
Cheers,
Kinora
Be mindful that before departing with your cash,, there are boat owners out there that are willing to get rid of the demon that they have perched on the transom for very little.
I gave away ( for nothing) a Fleming Major and a Navik because I was sick of them cluttering my shed. I bought an Aries for $400 which is what I currently use. Windvanes are out there for a carton of beer,,(but not that craft beer stuff)
That's a very expensive Fleming. My mate sold his Fleming Major and replaced it with an old English built Aries.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Kinora said..
... I'm looking for a wind vane system and would appreciate the guidance.
K.
How bout this on Facebook Marketplace.
Seller is going overseas on Tuesday with "no immediate plans to return" so both time and price seem to have brought the process to a halt.
K.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
Down to 4 competitors in the GG.
Certainly not what I would have expected with such solid boats but cutting competitors off for being too slow doesn't help.
Select to expand quoteAnother damaged Hydrovane!
KIRSTEN NEUSCHAFER - SAFETY CALL - ENGLISH & FRENCH
@Kirsten Neusch?fer was busy with repairs and retrieving warps yesterday, and made her call today. Her NE position meant less wind (50 max) and waves (5m) than Abhilash, she sailed under storm jib trailing warps, Minnehaha behaved well and did not suffer a knock-down, although her windvane and Watt & Sea generator bracket got damaged. She is using a broken hydrovane part as a spare, folded her twin sail, and is happy with her new poled genoa, but most importantly, she's happy at sea!
This time the self steering gear failure is with a Windpilot!
Abhilash TomyOfficial Called #GGR2022 at 0852UTC to advise Failure of his Wind Pilot self steering gear and that he had used up all his Spare Pendulum Blades in previous failures. At 0852UTC he confirmed he has lashed the tiller and is now considering all options. At 0405UTC GGR had given Abhilash his position and a weather forecast as he was sailing along a LEE SHORE with increasing winds over the next 24 hours. This is that forecast.....You 15th at 0400Z 52. 41.68S 76 32.75 W 0700Z SW26 G35 S4.2SW 1300Z SW30 G40 S4.9 1900Z S31 G41 S5.6 16th 0200 S23 G33 S4.8 0800 SW14 G22 S3.8 good luck! The GGR tracker was set at hourly at that time. He has requested no assistance and is in control of the situation. GGR will update as more information becomes available.
Select to expand quotejulesmoto said..Ramona said..
Down to 4 competitors in the GG.
Certainly not what I would have expected with such solid boats but cutting competitors off for being too slow doesn't help.
I think the last GG proved that the solid boats are no more reliable when circling the globe than the modern boats.
For me a fascinating example was when the replica of Suhaili put out a Mayday (IIRC) and a French guy doing a similar event in a Beneteau Oceanis diverted to go to his assistance. I wouldn't have put the Oceanis on my list of great ocean-going boats but I think it finished the lap when many of the GG boats didn't.
Select to expand quoteVery interesting duel between Abhliash and Kirsten right now.
If you click on the Overlay Map Flag (Wind) icon and choose WINDY, you ill see the weather that they are up against.
Abhliash is turning NNE and so has Kirsten.
Check out there relative positions to the prevailing winds.
Like slow motion chess.
Live Tracker
The Race Returns ? Sailing like it's 1968
goldengloberace.com
Select to expand quote ENTRANT UPDATE: GGR CODE RED Position @ 1630 UTC 46? 55.29S, 037? 14.7 W Vessel GPS SOG 3.4 & Heading: @ 36.85Weather: SW 50 knots, gusting 70 knots 6.5M SEA
SITUATION : PUFFIN has activated his EPIRB....GGR TRACKING now set at 15 minutes. At 1540UTC Ian Herbert Jones SKIPPER PUFFIN rang GGR on Iridium phone to advise that he was in extreme weather with no sail up trying to hand steer downwind , the yacht was laid over often ...There was a small amount of water down below. It was a bad connection and I lost contact.
At 1550UTC IAN called again...he had activated his EPIRB , could not launch his drogue as the cockpit hatch was underwater, was under bare poles, had been washed out of the cockpit twice and was struggling to keep the boat sailing down wind. He explained he activated the EPIRB as he could not initially make Iridium phone contact and wanted someone to know his situation. I advised him he must launch his drogue if possible to assist down wind control...and that the extreme weather will last at least another five hours. He is trying to do that. There is only 8 inches of water over the cabin sole. He thinks this is leakage through the cockpit...the manual bilge pump is working so he is not sinking. The mast is secure. All safety equipment onboard is secure. His electrical system is low in power.
I asked him to call again in one hour. Approx 1700UTC. He is using the iridium phone in the cockpit. MRCC may have trouble trying to ring him because of the noise and he may switch off the phone between contacts. I advised him to leave the EPIRB on. The activated EPIRB is listed as coming from his abandoned ship GRAB bag...this is unusual and I believe a mistake. He is on the boat and it would be the EPIRB from in the Yachts cabin....he has NOT abandoned the ship. I made Ian aware that he needs to manage this extreme weather best possible until it starts to drop in five hours.
SITUATION : ALERT BUTTON ON YB3 Manually Pressed. ACTIVATED! At 1725UTC Message received at GGR from PUFFIN YELLOW-BRICK YB3 satellite tracking and texting unit advising " Button ALERT.... 46., 57.250S 037, 12.382W " This means that Ian has manually gone to the YB3 unit and manually lifted a safety cover and pressed the distress alert button of the YB3 Satellite texting unit. This is recognised by GGR as a distress protocol for all GGR entrants. This would suggest he is definitely in a distress situation. He had not called GGR at the requested 1 hour update time. He was 25 Minutes overdue from that requested Phone Update. At the time of the ALERT BUTTON activation the Windy forecast weather was SW40Kt Gusting 88Kt and 7.7mtr SEA.
MRCC Argentina is now managing the Rescue operation. Further updates as they come available.
UPDATE - Ian has made contact with GGR - Puffin rolled, she is dismasted, he has injured his back and it's hard to move, there's 2ft of water in the cabin, the situation is worsening and he needs a weather break to cut the rig free...we are waiting further updates via GGR from MRCC who are coordinating the rescue - we're all with you Ian
Ian experienced a tough night unable to cut the mast free because of storm conditions and is taking pain killers for injured back. Water ingress into the hull stopped.Ian reports at first light his back injury is mobile able to work. Can climb ladders for evacuation, weather moderated to 4/5mtr sea and 25/30 kt wind,Mast still over the side but not banging too much and he is now trying to cut free. Plenty of power for VHF, sat phone and YB3, AIS is on and transmitting. He will test the engine later today to check if it is operational for manoeuvring.SAR Puerto Belgrano Argentina and MRCC Taiwan coordinated the routing of three Taiwanese fishing vessels, the FA DA CAI, ETA 1700 UTC in addition to the ZI DA WANG, ETA 1900 UTC and YUH SHENG N?1.
www.sail-world.com/news/260620/Ian-Herbert-Jones-rescue-underway
Perhaps the number of retirements/rescues is an indication that if an event goes on for a really long time without modern weather routing and multiple competitors are spread over a large proportion of the globe the chances of someone being at the wrong place at the wrong time are fairly high.
You can have all the modern stuff and still get caught out in bad weather eventually if your offshore long enough. This bloke had to pull in behind some islands to make rig repairs a couple of weeks ago. The weather was bad but I'm thinking the same rig problem re appeared.
Seems like the GGR has put a dent in the Trade wind 35 yacht fleet, that is two that have been rolled Demasted and scuttled
Select to expand quote
After 232 days at sea, there are two boats edging near the competitive class finish in the 2022 Golden Globe Race -and they are neck and neck. Who could have predicted a photo finish in an Around-the-World race?
South African Kirsten Neusch?fer on board her Cape George Cutter CG36 Minnehaha currently leads Indian Abhilash Tomy on his Rustler 36 Bayanat. They are expected to reach the finish at Les Sables-d'Olonne Friday or Saturday, depending on the wind.
If Kirsten crosses the finish line first, she will become the first woman to win a round-the-world race by the three great capes.
She would join Sir Robin Knox Johnston (1968) and Jean-Luc Van Den Heede (2018) as a winner of the extraordinarily challenging Golden Globe Race.
The finish will be live on the Golden Globe Race Facebook and YouTube sites.
