We are taking about QLD here, the state that has a dob in a vaper phone line, and a $2500 fine for leaving a garbage bin on the street for 24 hours.
The last page of the brochure "Options for sewage legislation compliance Ships other than declared ships September 2016" linked here:
www.msq.qld.gov.au/Marine-pollution/Sewage.aspx
gives a flowchart diagram. The relevant part is:
Does your vessel have a fixed toilet?
No ->
Options include:
- onshore facilities (public toilets)
- portable toilet (e.g. porta potty) to be discharged on shor or in waters where permitted.
Yes -> Is your vessel fitted with a macerator?
No -> Penalty for non-compliance
Yes -> Is sewage availabel to bypass the macerator?
No -> Penalty for non-compliance
So the only option for compliance with a composting head is for the composting head to be treated as a portable toilet, or at least, not a fixed toilet. Or to temporarilly remove the composting toilet and replace it with a portable toilet just for QLD.
I wonder if I screwed the composting head base to a piece of plywood, which is then attached with some sort of latch arrangement that is easilly removeable, if I would still be fined if I visited the sunshine state. I guess I would have to at least remove the hose clamp from the air vent hose on the composting head, or probably to be safer to remove the hose from the composting head. I would need the fan running somewhere on the hose run to the deck vent. It seems it would depend on the attitude of the boating officer. As I may not win a court fight over the issue if I challenged a huge fine, given the vague way that the legislation is worded.
Select to expand quotesomeday said..
the site says ok if you have
The use of an on-board sewage treatment system.
plus it actually gives a link to:
A Better Way To Go-Enviro composting toilets
Select to expand quoteAgent nods said..
the site says ok if you have
The use of an on-board sewage treatment system.
plus it actually gives a link to:
A Better Way To Go-Enviro composting toilets
I wish they were that reasonable in QLD, but unfortunately on the flowchart of the last page of this brochure:
www.msq.qld.gov.au/-/media/MSQInternet/MSQFiles/Home/Environment/Sewage/Pdf_sewleg_compliance_other_than_declared.pdf?la=en
I don't get to the part about a sewage treatment system before I get fined for non-compliance unless the boating officer agrees that the composting head is not a fixed toilet.
Obviously I can not install a macerator when I have no through hulls for the composting head and there is no water used for flushing which would be required for a macerator pump to work.
I think being fined would be very unreasonable if I am on a boat where there are no holes below the waterline for a head. The head is capable of holding solids for a month if there were 2 aboard.
Select to expand quotesouthace said..
Now we are on the topic of composting I often wonder where do you wee wee?
there is a pan at the front that captures the pee, and it's transferred to bottle/tank to be disposed of separately. (it is not classed as sewerage)
Select to expand quoteAgent nods said..southace said..
Now we are on the topic of composting I often wonder where do you wee wee?
there is a pan at the front that captures the pee, and it's transferred to bottle/tank to be disposed of separately. (it is not classed as sewerage)
You might want to check that !
Blackwater is wastewater generated from a toilet, bidette or bidet which is heavily and directly contaminated with human faeces and/or urine
Select to expand quoteUncleBob said..Agent nods said..southace said..
Now we are on the topic of composting I often wonder where do you wee wee?
there is a pan at the front that captures the pee, and it's transferred to bottle/tank to be disposed of separately. (it is not classed as sewerage)
You might want to check that !
Blackwater is wastewater generated from a toilet, bidette or bidet which is heavily and directly contaminated with human faeces and/or urine
Although here in Tasmania urine discharge is specifically allowed.
Bristol (not taking the p1ss)
It is not only the state in QLD but the marinas too require you to have a holding tank. after all it makes sense, why would you want "smelly things" around your boat. Still, I have seen plenty floating around certain boats in Manly yet nobody wanting to do a thing about it. Inerestingly, gray water discharge is ok. But, what if you end up peeing while showering (don't point the finger just yet). And at one point or another we all had whistled into the great blue on occassion. I don't see pee being a problem, that sort of dillutes quickly.
So wonder how did you solved the issue with the toilet. I too weel need to convert to a holding tank, I have ruled out carrying waste tanks thru the marina and the composting toilet ide just doesn't sit well with the missus.
the TMC electric loo is on sale with Witthworts currently and my go get one. Any cons pros or issues with the toilet?
I was thinking a 80 litre holding tank, would that suffice for a week or two daily use? Some say the TMC flashes about 4 litres so that would hold about 20 uses, am I close?
Yes you are close with 4 litres per flush .I am currently in qld and to hopefully comply I just used a 30 litre plastic drum that in a former life contained thinners , fitted an inspection port, put an inlet in the lid an outlet in the side ,mounted it horizontally in the sail locker and plumbed it into a tmc macerating toilet. I also fitted a charcoal filter that vents into my anchor well .cost was about $350 in total. No smell and with carefull use ( number 2 only ) I can stretch to a week before having to go for a sail . I sail solo. There is no facility to use a pump out station as I didn't see the need to put the fittings in as once I get back to nsw where would I go to pump it out.
The issues I have with the TMC unit are around the exit from the pump,
1/ the hose tail is only 1" tho a adapter is supplied to 1 1/2"
2/ the check valve on the exit from the pump leaks and so what's in the hose makes its way back to the bowl
3/ the hose tails on the pump are only long enough for one clamp
Another case of get what you pay for,but better than the manual job so far
Select to expand quotewoko said..
The issues I have with the TMC unit are around the exit from the pump,
1/ the hose tail is only 1" tho a adapter is supplied to 1 1/2"
2/ the check valve on the exit from the pump leaks and so what's in the hose makes its way back to the bowl
3/ the hose tails on the pump are only long enough for one clamp
Another case of get what you pay for,but better than the manual job so far
neat set up. i think if you had the inlet on the top side of the tank rather on the side. I think you loose volume this way plus you always will have back-flow into the toilet. Do you not have a vent hose connected? And, unless I am not seeing it, why not add a gravity discharge option with a y-valve?
I was thinking about setting it up a similar way but I think I would want a bigger tank and not sure if the toilet would be able to push through the waste water that high.
Initially the waste was plumbed into the top of the tank, but I moved it to the side to reduce the hose length and the resulting bypass of the check valve was likewise reduced. I could of added another check valve but I was trying to keep it as simple as possible.
the charcoal vent is on the blue hose passing through the bulkhead.
its a bit hard to see on the pic but there's a sea cock behind the seat, so when it's closed its a holding tank and when open whatever is pumped into the tank simply flows straight out to sea. Saves on a Y valve extra hose, clamps and clutter.
The tank is 86L, I made it to take advantage the maximum space. And has a clear inspection port if I find it nessasry to have a look in there
I can easily add a pump out line if I ever find a pump out station !
Select to expand quotewoko said..
Initially the waste was plumbed into the top of the tank, but I moved it to the side to reduce the hose length and the resulting bypass of the check valve was likewise reduced. I could of added another check valve but I was trying to keep it as simple as possible.
the charcoal vent is on the blue hose passing through the bulkhead.
its a bit hard to see on the pic but there's a sea cock behind the seat, so when it's closed its a holding tank and when open whatever is pumped into the tank simply flows straight out to sea. Saves on a Y valve extra hose, clamps and clutter.
The tank is 86L, I made it to take advantage the maximum space. And has a clear inspection port if I find it nessasry to have a look in there
I can easily add a pump out line if I ever find a pump out station !
I thought the blue hose was the pump out hose leading to the deck coupling. That is a massive breather hose though.
Bit of a smell aboard so I thought to give the holding tank a bubble bath, looks like I found the culprit, these type of charcoal filters obviously aren't air tight
Guess I'll have to make one outa pvc, some hose tails and charcoal from the campfire
Select to expand quotemadmission said..
This is a bit off topic but
After using both a lavac and a TMC macerating heads i am with crusoe the vacuum work well and with the maintenance issues ramona outlined for me its a no brainer so was pleasantly surprised to come across a description of an economic conversion in Jude Binders Book on practical tips.
"Our head is a homebuilt Lavac operated by a Henderson Mk IV bilge pump."
see www.jackandjude.com for complete description.
Back to the **** fight
Have used a Lavac manual toilet, with 2 adults and 2 kids and they are amasing. Maintenance with full time use on seawater was a yearly pump clean and thats about it.
I found that the hoses end up smelling. The smell seems to come through the wall of the hose which i discovered after very thorough cleaning didnt shift the smell but with new hoses there was no smell at all.
This was hose sold for toilets btw.
On holding tanks (hope to never have one again) go for the biggest diameter vent hose you can fit, and a smell filter.
Yep and that's why I posted the ****ty state of the smell filter, purchased from our reputable online chandelier. A waste of plastic, charcoal and $. Ps the bubble bath hasn't made any difference
So let me get this straight.
every creature that ever lived in the history of the ocean took a dump in the ocean for millions of years without any drama,but if I do it I need to add chemicals to make it ok?
Na you can ditch it outside 3 nm so long as it's been macerated that is of course if your not in a prohibited area, and then there's some prohibited areas that it's permitted to ditch it if you treat it with chemicals, and some not, so failing to find an area that's legal to ditch it, you can cart it around till you find a pump out station, then under the IMOs marpol there's a similar but different regulation, I hope that's cleared that up a bit for you
Peggy Hall wrote the bible on heads. If you have a set of heads onboard then this book is about the best $30 or so you can spend!
You know you're a boatie when you find a discussion about holding tanks and macerators interesting.
I agonised about installing a tank for a long time and eventually decided to put in a fairly simple system for my own benefit when spending an extended period in enclosed waters if not the regulations.
I changed from a straight in and out set up and put in a diversion valve so i could send the waste either straight out or into a small 60litre tank which has an extra macerator to empty it through the original valve from the existing system. The aeration line is vented into an enclosed but not airtight space that holds an lpg cylinder (you can just see it at the back top of the pic) so hopefully no odour issues. None yet anyway!
Dammit, one day I'll figure out how to post pics the right way up.
Holding tanks on vessels under 35 ft is very problematic.
If outside of protected waters direct discharge via a macerator (such as an electric head) is permissible.
If inside protected waters a method of holding toilet waste is required.
Two alternatives to holding tanks are Porta Potties and Thunder Buckets (20 litre plastic bucket with clip lid and clip on toilet seat).
These may be emptied via the macerator toilet in open waters.
With this option why complicate your life with holding tanks?????
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Holding tanks on vessels under 35 ft is very problematic.
If outside of protected waters direct discharge via a macerator (such as an electric head) is permissible.
If inside protected waters a method of holding toilet waste is required.
Two alternatives to holding tanks are Porta Potties and Thunder Buckets (20 litre plastic bucket with clip lid and clip on toilet seat).
These may be emptied via the macerator toilet in open waters.
With this option why complicate your life with holding tanks?????
Yep nothing like sharing a bucket of poo with ya mates. ??
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Holding tanks on vessels under 35 ft is very problematic.
If outside of protected waters direct discharge via a macerator (such as an electric head) is permissible.
If inside protected waters a method of holding toilet waste is required.
Two alternatives to holding tanks are Porta Potties and Thunder Buckets (20 litre plastic bucket with clip lid and clip on toilet seat).
These may be emptied via the macerator toilet in open waters.
With this option why complicate your life with holding tanks?????
The porta pot is an excellent option for an extended layover, if there's a RV dump point handy. My preferred option in my home port. The reason I went the holding tank is that port hopping along the coast. 1/finding a dump point isn't always an option and gurgling say 15L of ..it down a local dunny is well, to be frank is ugly. 2/ a short layover and back to sea, now the fun begins, because gurgling it down a public toilet starts to appear not so bad when your confronted with the canister full of ..it, up the companion way, over the side, tie it on, let it drag not ski so it rinses, then recover the said reciprocal.
That is where the holding tank wins emptying at sea is a matter of opening a seacock. The fact that a small tank exceeds the capacity of a porta pot can also be a bonus, but beware the last statement is a double edge sword
Select to expand quotesouthace said..
Yep nothing like sharing a bucket of poo with ya mates. ??
If it is up on deck keeping the stink out of the cabin it is fine.
Certainly a better idea than having a tank full of what you are full of hanging over your bunk.
Select to expand quotecisco said..southace said..
Yep nothing like sharing a bucket of poo with ya mates. ??
If it is up on deck keeping the stink out of the cabin it is fine.
Certainly a better idea than having a tank full of what you are full of hanging over your bunk.
Opening a half full bucket off poo is going to create more smell in your little cabin than my holding tank I installed 4 years ago that has no smell and is not hanging over my queen sized bed.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Holding tanks on vessels under 35 ft is very problematic.
If outside of protected waters direct discharge via a macerator (such as an electric head) is permissible.
If inside protected waters a method of holding toilet waste is required.
Two alternatives to holding tanks are Porta Potties and Thunder Buckets (20 litre plastic bucket with clip lid and clip on toilet seat).
These may be emptied via the macerator toilet in open waters.
With this option why complicate your life with holding tanks?????
I thought we had sorted you out about this crap about a year ago. It ended up with post being deleted when it descended to a personal level of challenge, ego and insult. Obviously you and I haven't changed our views.
I really like my holding tank. As we have a cat with stern steps (with the toilet close by) we spend a lot of time swimming around the boat. We love mucking around the boat, swimming under the bridgedeck, and jumping off the bows and slowly swimming to the stern. And we like going to pristine spots and small creeks such as Zoe and the creek on Percy. Drying out without a holding tank is a real bummer but we put a clean bucket of seawater in the head compartment and can flush even when the water has gone away. (Percy lagoon again)
It allows us to go to places like Cid Harbour and Refuge Bay and put nutrients into the water later, instead of in an ecosystem filled with hundreds of humans. Dilution is the solution to pollution, so waiting till you are sailing fast and offshore is much better for nutrient levels than macerating and putting it into the water in a crowded anchorage - the marine life will like you better for waiting to later to dump.
For us, it is a no brainer to have a tank. It is a gravity outlet tank so after a week or so we can drop it when sailing to the next anchorage, well out from land. I would not like to not have one as it makes our lives cleaner and safer (you don't swim in someone's poo) and allows us to use the toilet whenever we want and dump later. So a big tick for a gravity emptying tank of about 5-7 days duration for me. Some smell sometimes but pretty uncommon.
Select to expand quoteSailMark said..
Obviously you and I haven't changed our views.
My view is that if you want to have a holding tank and that makes you feel morally superior, fill your boots or tank.
If compliance to legislation can be achieved without fitting a holding tank as I simply described I certainly will not be fitting one.
If you want to put me in Coventry for having that view, again, fill your boots.
