Select to expand quotejbear said..
It's funny people think they can increase the sail area on Swanson believing it will preform better, when Ron Swanson was a mathematician ?
Hi all,
Cutter rig with Swanson 32 double spreader mast and mainsail, twin headsail furlers and running backstays.
One of the past owners modified this boat to get more speed.
Did he get it?
Select to expand quoteYara said..Bundeenabuoy said..SandS said..Ramona said..SandS said..
just read the ad ....... this boat has just moved into first place as bargain of the month !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great pocket cruiser for someone !!
No. Magic Carpets old Swanson 32 that just sold on Ebay for 6 grand with a mooring is the the bargain. Swanson 28's are motor sailers with a lot of wetted area. They are meant to have the engine ticking over when the wind is light.
Did magic carpet have all the gear in great condition as this boat has ? i bet not ......... the cheapest is not the bargain ! most cruisers will motor sail to a destination anyhow ....... i never said it was a fast SV just the bargain pocket cruiser of the month !
I inspected the Swanson today in Caringbah.
It does look as if it has been well maintain in the past.
Unfortunately the owner is not able to continue to maintain it now.
It had a significant oil smell inside the boat, which, I did not understand as the motor has only 600 hours on it???
My main disappointment was internally the timber was a lot darker than the photos suggested.
This made it feel cramped and uninviting.
We went for a sail and it performed well in 10 knots.
L Francis Herreshof would tell you that cabin is cosy. Also, it has the advantage of the topside portholes, which is great. Some new light colour cushion covers will also make a difference.
Oil smell can be as simple as cleaning the bilges. Plus, open those ports for a while, and the breeze will help.
Cost question is how old is the rigging? And BTW, I said for me, I don't like running backstays. Just personal, you might love them, and cutter rig is a big plus.
I haven't done the reading on a cutter rig.
Why do you like it?
Its pretty rare for a cutter not to have check stays,,, especially if the inner stay is removable. Or you may find a cutter that has a permanent tensioned inner stay that has an extra set of shrouds that run from the aft lower chainplates to oppose the top of the innerstay, some of these rigs even have checkstays too
I have checkstays or runners as they are sometimes called and they only are set when flying a staysail, I find they are no big deal,,, just part of staysail rig and I do like the extra confidence in the rig they provide me with.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Dunno. A similar boat from the same Admiral's Cup was left in pretty much stock condition, including original rig and sparse interior, and was a couple's world cruiser for many years. They loved it.
Similarly, as a competitive club boat what would PC need? A second-hand 105% headsail, a second hand # 4, one or two of the existing mains, and two second kites and she'd be as competitive under PHS (which is what most people race under) as WOXI is. She may need new standing rigging and lines, but on the other hand I bet if you put the word out and put her hull together some of the people who remember the boat would find you some good used stuff from a Grand Prix boat. I've put some second-hand sails on a boat that's not much smaller; they're OK.
I think even with new white sails, saloon and nav station, portaloo, headsail furler it would be hard to spend 20 grand. Mate with the alloy Cole 42 built in the same era never spent that much. His biggest outlay was cordage. New halyards and reefing lines back to the cockpit in the required sizes was very expensive. Running costs, mooring and slipping fees would be high.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Yara said..Bundeenabuoy said..SandS said..Ramona said..SandS said..
just read the ad ....... this boat has just moved into first place as bargain of the month !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! great pocket cruiser for someone !!
No. Magic Carpets old Swanson 32 that just sold on Ebay for 6 grand with a mooring is the the bargain. Swanson 28's are motor sailers with a lot of wetted area. They are meant to have the engine ticking over when the wind is light.
Did magic carpet have all the gear in great condition as this boat has ? i bet not ......... the cheapest is not the bargain ! most cruisers will motor sail to a destination anyhow ....... i never said it was a fast SV just the bargain pocket cruiser of the month !
I inspected the Swanson today in Caringbah.
It does look as if it has been well maintain in the past.
Unfortunately the owner is not able to continue to maintain it now.
It had a significant oil smell inside the boat, which, I did not understand as the motor has only 600 hours on it???
My main disappointment was internally the timber was a lot darker than the photos suggested.
This made it feel cramped and uninviting.
We went for a sail and it performed well in 10 knots.
L Francis Herreshof would tell you that cabin is cosy. Also, it has the advantage of the topside portholes, which is great. Some new light colour cushion covers will also make a difference.
Oil smell can be as simple as cleaning the bilges. Plus, open those ports for a while, and the breeze will help.
Cost question is how old is the rigging? And BTW, I said for me, I don't like running backstays. Just personal, you might love them, and cutter rig is a big plus.
I haven't done the reading on a cutter rig.
Why do you like it?
Many of the modern ocean racers have cutter rig with furlers. It simplifies sail changes and minimizes the need to go to the bow. Given that most of these boats tend to go through waves, rather than over them, that is a big advantage.
Disadvantage is that the foremost sail might need to be rolled in to tack.
I think those ocean racer rigs are Solent rigs, they don't fly both foresails together, it's just a convenience to have two different jibs ready to go.
Mate, that is a very sexy "cutter rig".
Below are solent stay rigs, I would guess usually set up with light air No 1 on the furler and a choice of No 2,3 or 4 working genoas hank able or foil able for the solent stay.
According to what I have read the technically correct solent sut up must have the axis line of the solent stay coinciding with the backstay attachment point or the main halyard axle as in the pic below.
Select to expand quotecisco said..
Below are solent stay rigs, I would guess usually set up with light air No 1 on the furler and a choice of No 2,3 or 4 working genoas hank able or foil able for the solent stay.
From what I can work out Peter Joubert designed Currawong with multiple Solent stays, although I don't think Barker ever built them in this configuration.
Select to expand quotejohn24 said..
I think those ocean racer rigs are Solent rigs, they don't fly both foresails together, it's just a convenience to have two different jibs ready to go.
Hi John,
Respectfully disagree, as Sands' pic shows. For it to be efficient and workable though, the luffs all need to align and have equal spacing, which means your halyard positions on the mast need to have separation between them. This is not that common.
My mast halyard position for the staysail is 2m lower than my genoa halyard. This matches the tacks, which are also 2m apart. The good designs use masthead kites and a fractional genoa, so they can have three luffs all beautifully matched, This is why I cannot use three headsails for reaching or running, my rig is fractional and not a mast head, so my kite halyard has no separation to the genoa.
To trim them correctly you match the line of the leaches, this is hard to do with the heads of the sails all going to the same spot.
I would argue without clear and uniform separation, normally an issue at the mast, you are not going to get real benefit from two headsails, but with the right design and trim it is more powerful and slightly quicker. And the bigger sail gets settled, it heels less and handles the gusts better hence you can carry it longer.
An example, the last race we were two sail reaching with the spinnaker and the staysail, and we had less broaches as compared to not using the staysail.
So we had more sail area, more control and more power in the lulls. Win win.
Cheers!
SB
You honor, I submit exhibit A, this is a good example of luff separation.
On their way to a record 600nm in 24 hours. I think multiple headsails, designed right, do work.
In principle, you are "sub slotting" the airflow through the slot. The more laminar airflow over the back of the sails, the more lift they will generate.
The air on the inside of the smallest sail will be slightly faster because of the prescence of the sail. This increases the ariflow across the back of the sail, which increases the airflow on the inside of the 2nd sail. This increases the airflow on the back of the sail, which increases the airflow on the inside of the third sail. This increases the airflow on the back of the third sail.
Its kinda like re-designing an inlet manifold to an engine by shaping the airflow.
You need to trim it right, or you go slower. You don't want dirty air in your slots, it's a knock on effect.
Select to expand quoteAndrew68 said..
From what I can work out Peter Joubert designed Currawong with multiple Solent stays, although I don't think Barker ever built them in this configuration.
I have all those deck fittings and twin headsail halyards and a staysail. The staysail is meant for flying under a spinnaker.
I stand corrected on the ocean racer cutter rig, nice examples. Sorry to have diverted this thread. I was waiting to see any noteworthy boat to turn up to post back on topic , but so far none of interest.
Perhaps a few cheap boats going in Bermuda coming up.
www.trademe.co.nz/motors/boats-marine/yachts/keeler/auction-2288671949.htm?rsqid=23162747ad2041f59e6dad8cc60032ef-001
Interesting to see what this goes for.
when they are a bargain they sell !!!! yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/duncanson-37-sloop/236894
Select to expand quotejbear said..
The Swanson 28 isn't a motorsailer never was. It was a request from a guy who approached Swansons and wanted a small compact, roomy cruising yacht similar design to the 42 and that is what it is. The idea they are slow is laughable? sail them like any full keel yacht and they sail well. No, they won't point as high as a fin keel, but they weren't designed too.
Yachts a buyers guide has a little bit about Swansons - www.boatsales.com.auional
Jbear
Thanks for the article.
It was a great read and I am excited to be part of the family.
Select to expand quoteYara said..jbear said..
It's funny people think they can increase the sail area on Swanson believing it will preform better, when Ron Swanson was a mathematician ?
No, just on the 28, as the high freeboard area is large compared to the sail area.
The Swanson 28 was built with the 32ft rig for the original owner by the Swanson brothers.
The previous owner I bought it off, thought it sailed better on all points of sail than other Swanson 28's.
He was in the habit of putting a reef in the main at around 15 knots.
I am sailing on Sunday so will have a better understanding after that.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..Ramona said..
Yep, very much a Gary Mull. She may actually be Bushwhacker, a mate's boat when I was a kid. She came out here for the 1972 One Ton Cup and was bought by the guy who used to build Mull's Santana 22.
I thought it might be one of the many boats that are sailed out from the USA and the owners opt out of sailing home. See the occassional Ranger 37 for sail on Langkawi. There was a wood one off for sale in Japan years ago that was left after the One Ton championships. Lovely boat for the same price as a good SS34.
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/manly-west/sail-boats/sailing-boat/1228100715
Another Ranger, this time a 33. Looks suspiciously like the one that used to be owned by a regular forum member.
Select to expand quoteRamona said..
www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/manly-west/sail-boats/sailing-boat/1228100715
Another Ranger, this time a 33. Looks suspiciously like the one that used to be owned by a regular forum member.
I am so attracted to the cockpit on these boats, just looks like a fabulous spot to sleep on hot nights.
Select to expand quoteBundeenabuoy said..Ramona said..
This one eventually sold for $5000!
Sold for $6500 apparently. Lot of boat for the money!
