I have 5 race sails from 6.6 to 11.0, and I have them because I raced for over 30 years, longboard course racing, slalom, course/slalom, long distance and formula. They are very stable over a broad wind range compared to RAF (no cam sails). However, I just freeride now and the downside of the race sails is:
Heavy
Don't luff well
Slow to rotate on tacks and jibes because of the fixed foil shape
Popping sticky cams in lighter winds
Expensive, especially with 100% carbon booms and masts
Some brands are tough to rig, but my Maui Sails TR sails are easy and fast to rig.
So for my freeriding, what I gain (opposite of the above list) by using RAF sails is worth sacrificing the broader and more stable wind range of the race sails.
That's why most recreational windsurfers don't buy race sails. Unless racing, it's difficult to justify.
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
Hello one and all,
I have been reading what everyone has got to say to the make of these sails, but firstly as some of you seem far more educated in areodynamics than anyone who I have every worked with I thought that I might need to say who I am.
I have worked for some of the biggest sail makers in the world, designed AC sails and worked on sail rocket project, also I have worked for F1 as a front wing designer so my credentials on this matter I believe are ok.
Why are people asking such ridiculous questions about angles of attack, like these people are going to correct the designer.
Double skin sails on the right craft are quicker, no questions. Putting up pictures of lasers, sailing with their tel-tales flying is totally rubbish.
Sail rockets sails have hardly any twist and its done nearly 65 knots.
F1 front wings are not there for their wind releasing ability, they actually force the car down putting more wight through the Axel, thus into the tyres.
This bloke who is making the sails has come up with something new within our stagnant sport. Gaastra tried with their total flow head system and then canned it but this bloke at MW should be applauded not criticised by people with far too much time on their hands and have their heads up their own arses.
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....
Thank you very much! And Happy New Year!
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..John340 said..
MW, your comments about race sails may be valid for your sailing spot but not for mine. Yesterday we had 40+ windsurfers on Moreton Bay Brisbane. 80% of them were on race sails and recorded their speeds etc on GPSTC. I weigh 88kgs. I used a 7.9. The wind slowly built from 13 to 20kts. I sailed comfortably all afternoon.
I don't know how things in Australia but in Europe and USA race sails not really popular. I had 2 of them , give it away for free. Don't tell me how great they are because you have no idea what you are talking about. By the way my CFD simulation have all variables, I can specify angle of attack wind speed surface condition, air pressure temperature, density etc. Watch more blogs where simulation will be around two profiles, these profiles will have twist as you requested. www.mwsails.com/blog
Your simulations are worthless gobbledegook without real life testing against the status quo
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
Hello one and all,
I have been reading what everyone has got to say to the make of these sails, but firstly as some of you seem far more educated in areodynamics than anyone who I have every worked with I thought that I might need to say who I am.
I have worked for some of the biggest sail makers in the world, designed AC sails and worked on sail rocket project, also I have worked for F1 as a front wing designer so my credentials on this matter I believe are ok.
Why are people asking such ridiculous questions about angles of attack, like these people are going to correct the designer.
Double skin sails on the right craft are quicker, no questions. Putting up pictures of lasers, sailing with their tel-tales flying is totally rubbish.
Sail rockets sails have hardly any twist and its done nearly 65 knots.
F1 front wings are not there for their wind releasing ability, they actually force the car down putting more wight through the Axel, thus into the tyres.
This bloke who is making the sails has come up with something new withstagnant sport. Gaastra tried with their total flow head system and then canned it but this bloke at MW should be applauded not criticised by people with far too much time on their hands and have their heads up their own arses.
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....
I think we all know that the f1 front wing forces it down but are you telling us that the design of it is purely to force the front down and the complex shape is not also to guide air around or over the wheels and let some through in other places im sure you will know as you design these i would love to hear how it works . As for wing twist why did you design the ac72 sails with 9 elements and adjustable twist if it was un important and do you think that the fact that the sail rocket sail base is 1.5m from the flat water surface or the americas cup 3m up ? would give them a must more even air speed over the span and would these craft need significantly less twist due to much higher speed vs windspeed ? My observation sailing is that insufficient twist very slow and hard to sail. Genuinly interested as these things made sense to me but like normal im happy to be wrong.
The pictures are to show a point that one cant just say a sail type is the best each of those wings is perfect for its use mw sails might be the perfect sail too but to prove the worth of something with cfd when the conditions are unknown or all the pieces to the puzzle arnt there doesnt mean alot asking the angle of attack is not questioning the designer but questioning the simulation. I think the sail is cool and will have potential in some areas of windsurfing.
Select to expand quoteJohn340 said..
MW, your comments about race sails may be valid for your sailing spot but not for mine. Yesterday we had 40+ windsurfers on Moreton Bay Brisbane. 80% of them were on race sails and recorded their speeds etc on GPSTC. I weigh 88kgs. I used a 7.9. The wind slowly built from 13 to 20kts. I sailed comfortably all afternoon.
+ 1. It was a good day. I was one of the 20 % on freeride gear and sailed for 4 hours on a Severne Gator 6.5m no cam freeride sail. I was planing in 12 knots and perfectly comfortable at 20 knots with no tuning changes required. I would have still been hanging on with gusts up to 25 knots with a bit more outhaul. I cannot speak in general about all modern sails as i cant try them all, but it seems to me the wind range on conventional modern sails is very good, both with and without cams.
I was being passed by the race sails, and yes i am considering buying some despite whatever the downsides are, because who doesn't want to go faster .
Select to expand quotevortex said..duzzi said..MWsails said..decrepit said..MWsails said..
>>>> I did not call him a liar . He just said that rig doest'n need to be changed with wind. This is a lie.
It's not a lie, it's interpretation of semantics. Just because people after absolute performance choose to change sails every 6kts, doesn't mean the average Joe has to!
This was my point much earlier on about efficiency. A sailor can only make use of as much power as they can counter balance, after that they have to sheet out, the excess sail area is then just drag. So it's not about sails being unstable out of their wind range, it's about different wind ranges for different weight sailors.
And no matter how good the wind range of any sail is, once the sailor is using all their weight to counterbalance it. With any increase in wind speed from there on, a smaller sail will be more efficient.
So I really can't see how your sails are any different in that respect, even if you only NEED 1 sail for the whole wind range, there's still going to be a fairly narrow band where it's most EFFICIENT, and this will vary with the riders weight, and to a certain extent height.
Everybody knows that if you use 7.0 at 14 kt it will fail at about 20 , Not because it generate too much power but because it become uncontrollable and useless. But before it fails it become slower, much slower, it doesn't generate more power it just center of power shifting rapidly and human can't react fast enough. The reason why wing has mega range it because center of power stays stationary disregard of wind speed, And this is why it faster, simply because it continuously generate lift while other sails fail.
This thread is hilarious: do you actually windsurf? A free race/race 7.0 works perfectly fine in 20 knots. I am no pwa level sailor, weight 68 kg, and I could take my 6.6/4 cams sail out when people were planing on 4.5 and be comfortable ... and I clocked my best speeds in those conditions: no becoming slower!
Oh this is because you're superman! You are the greatest of the great and you can handle everything! But for the rest of us who have to use 4.5 while you enjoy your 7.0 or whatever , I have wing sail with proper aerodynamics to enjoy.
No superman: I am a smallish guy at 68 Kg, and I am just a recreational sailor. 6.6 in twenty knots is no big deal. Want to compete? In 20 knots (and some more Kg of weight!) people would use a 7.8-8.6!
But really enough: you are obviously using hyperbole to market your sails, and in addition bad mouthing a whole industry and making up problems with current sails that do not exist. So stop ... just try to sell your product without all this nonsense.
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
Hello one and all,
I have been reading what everyone has got to say to the make of these sails, but firstly as some of you seem far more educated in areodynamics than anyone who I have every worked with I thought that I might need to say who I am.
I have worked for some of the biggest sail makers in the world, designed AC sails and worked on sail rocket project, also I have worked for F1 as a front wing designer so my credentials on this matter I believe are ok.
Why are people asking such ridiculous questions about angles of attack, like these people are going to correct the designer.
Double skin sails on the right craft are quicker, no questions. Putting up pictures of lasers, sailing with their tel-tales flying is totally rubbish.
Sail rockets sails have hardly any twist and its done nearly 65 knots.
F1 front wings are not there for their wind releasing ability, they actually force the car down putting more wight through the Axel, thus into the tyres.
This bloke who is making the sails has come up with something new within our stagnant sport. Gaastra tried with their total flow head system and then canned it but this bloke at MW should be applauded not criticised by people with far too much time on their hands and have their heads up their own arses.
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....
Nicely put
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
I have been reading what everyone has got to say to the make of these sails, but firstly as some of you seem far more educated in areodynamics than anyone who I have every worked with I thought that I might need to say who I am.
I have worked for some of the biggest sail makers in the world, designed AC sails and worked on sail rocket project, also I have worked for F1 as a front wing designer so my credentials on this matter I believe are ok.
Excellent - someone with a bit of aerofoil knowledge. How did you formulaic-model the F1 front-wing? Or does the industry use iterative-feedback of flow-models / real-world?
If mathematically modelled, then it is awesome that tech is advancing like that - otherwise, it is just another (expensive?) way to test ideas.Select to expand quote
Why are people asking such ridiculous questions about angles of attack, like these people are going to correct the designer.
Double skin sails on the right craft are quicker, no questions. Putting up pictures of lasers, sailing with their tel-tales flying is totally rubbish.
Sail rockets sails have hardly any twist and its done nearly 65 knots.
Because some of use *are* engineers, so we do understand the math behind how foils work. As such, the comparison of Sail Rocket and twist isn't valid:
a) SR doesn't use a soft wing - which *is* needed so that we can go in both directions.
b) It isn't power-limited due to sailor body weight.
... twist does a number of beneficial things for a windsurfing craft, most of which isn't necessary in other forms of sailing. Select to expand quoteMadge said..
This bloke who is making the sails has come up with something new within our stagnant sport. Gaastra tried with their total flow head system and then canned it but this bloke at MW should be applauded not criticised by people with far too much time on their hands and have their heads up their own arses.
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....Select to expand quotekato said..
Nicely put
Only partially.
It is excellent that there are still new ideas available. Great. Fantastic. By all means, come up with something entirely new - it sure does appear like new Race sails are very similar to 5yr old models... and yet hundreds of people making incremental advances year-on-year - we know this because the gear is faster and easier to handle.
To dismiss this effort, is just an nonsense thing to do. *Unless* there is some benefit - then go for it, tell everyone they are wrong. [ Hopefully some of that knowledge will be presented on the blog, because I am certainly interested. So far there is no evidence of that benefit, the info shows what we already know. ]
I will point out one significant benefit - a design which allows for a flat-windward-skin, and is usable on the water.Select to expand quote
F1 front wings are not there for their wind releasing ability, they actually force the car down putting more wight through the Axel, thus into the tyres.
I'm not trying to be belittling this comment with my breakdown - but this statement is just silly. Anyone whom has ever seen formula one - and their dog - knows full well that the front wing is for downforce.
My $0.0001....
I cannot hang on to a bedsheet in the recommended windspeeds, curved foil or not...
Is there some benefit of a flat-windward-surface, which allows me to control the sail-area ?
Select to expand quoteduzzi said..vortex said..duzzi said..MWsails said..decrepit said..MWsails said..
>>>> I did not call him a liar . He just said that rig doest'n need to be changed with wind. This is a lie.
It's not a lie, it's interpretation of semantics. Just because people after absolute performance choose to change sails every 6kts, doesn't mean the average Joe has to!
This was my point much earlier on about efficiency. A sailor can only make use of as much power as they can counter balance, after that they have to sheet out, the excess sail area is then just drag. So it's not about sails being unstable out of their wind range, it's about different wind ranges for different weight sailors.
And no matter how good the wind range of any sail is, once the sailor is using all their weight to counterbalance it. With any increase in wind speed from there on, a smaller sail will be more efficient.
So I really can't see how your sails are any different in that respect, even if you only NEED 1 sail for the whole wind range, there's still going to be a fairly narrow band where it's most EFFICIENT, and this will vary with the riders weight, and to a certain extent height.
Everybody knows that if you use 7.0 at 14 kt it will fail at about 20 , Not because it generate too much power but because it become uncontrollable and useless. But before it fails it become slower, much slower, it doesn't generate more power it just center of power shifting rapidly and human can't react fast enough. The reason why wing has mega range it because center of power stays stationary disregard of wind speed, And this is why it faster, simply because it continuously generate lift while other sails fail.
This thread is hilarious: do you actually windsurf? A free race/race 7.0 works perfectly fine in 20 knots. I am no pwa level sailor, weight 68 kg, and I could take my 6.6/4 cams sail out when people were planing on 4.5 and be comfortable ... and I clocked my best speeds in those conditions: no becoming slower!
Oh this is because you're superman! You are the greatest of the great and you can handle everything! But for the rest of us who have to use 4.5 while you enjoy your 7.0 or whatever , I have wing sail with proper aerodynamics to enjoy.
No superman: I am a smallish guy at 68 Kg, and I am just a recreational sailor. 6.6 in twenty knots is no big deal. Want to compete? In 20 knots (and some more Kg of weight!) people would use a 7.8-8.6!
But really enough: you are obviously using hyperbole to market your sails, and in addition bad mouthing a whole industry and making up problems with current sails that do not exist. So stop ... just try to sell your product without all this nonsense.
Oh please. This forum is like, one day you pigeon, one day statue. Get use to it.
Select to expand quotemathew said..
My $0.0001....
I cannot hang on to a bedsheet in the recommended windspeeds, curved foil or not...
Is there some benefit of a flat-windward-surface, which allows me to control the sail-area ?
Yes. Read cfd blog on mwsails.com it will be posted every week.
Select to expand quoteMadge said..
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....
Yeah but he needs to prove otherwise, not us.
He hasn't
Mr MW.
You really need to take a step back, have a good look at the situation here (Seabreeze).
Stop posting until there is real practical evidence of your claims here in Australia. You should probably invest some more of your time getting your product into our hands., not your ideas into our heads. Focus on getting a following within any of the many facets of windsurfing or get some positive competition results.
If it is as you say then bring it on! Who doesn't want to go faster with more control?
Until Then.
As John said "Gobbledegoop"
At least its entertaining
Select to expand quotemathew said..Madge said..
I have been reading what everyone has got to say to the make of these sails, but firstly as some of you seem far more educated in areodynamics than anyone who I have every worked with I thought that I might need to say who I am.
I have worked for some of the biggest sail makers in the world, designed AC sails and worked on sail rocket project, also I have worked for F1 as a front wing designer so my credentials on this matter I believe are ok.
Excellent - someone with a bit of aerofoil knowledge. How did you formulaic-model the F1 front-wing? Or does the industry use iterative-feedback of flow-models / real-world?
If mathematically modelled, then it is awesome that tech is advancing like that - otherwise, it is just another (expensive?) way to test ideas.
Why are people asking such ridiculous questions about angles of attack, like these people are going to correct the designer.
Double skin sails on the right craft are quicker, no questions. Putting up pictures of lasers, sailing with their tel-tales flying is totally rubbish.
Sail rockets sails have hardly any twist and its done nearly 65 knots.
Because some of use *are* engineers, so we do understand the math behind how foils work. As such, the comparison of Sail Rocket and twist isn't valid:
a) SR doesn't use a soft wing - which *is* needed so that we can go in both directions.
b) It isn't power-limited due to sailor body weight.
... twist does a number of beneficial things for a windsurfing craft, most of which isn't necessary in other forms of sailing. Madge said..
This bloke who is making the sails has come up with something new within our stagnant sport. Gaastra tried with their total flow head system and then canned it but this bloke at MW should be applauded not criticised by people with far too much time on their hands and have their heads up their own arses.
Until proven otherwise be grateful someone is trying to keep our sport alive with new ideas......We;; done I say....kato said..
Nicely put
Only partially.
It is excellent that there are still new ideas available. Great. Fantastic. By all means, come up with something entirely new - it sure does appear like new Race sails are very similar to 5yr old models... and yet hundreds of people making incremental advances year-on-year - we know this because the gear is faster and easier to handle.
To dismiss this effort, is just an nonsense thing to do. *Unless* there is some benefit - then go for it, tell everyone they are wrong. [ Hopefully some of that knowledge will be presented on the blog, because I am certainly interested. So far there is no evidence of that benefit, the info shows what we already know. ]
I will point out one significant benefit - a design which allows for a flat-windward-skin, and is usable on the water.
F1 front wings are not there for their wind releasing ability, they actually force the car down putting more wight through the Axel, thus into the tyres.
I'm not trying to be belittling this comment with my breakdown - but this statement is just silly. Anyone whom has ever seen formula one - and their dog - knows full well that the front wing is for downforce.
fair enough, well put.
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
wingsails ?
ttps://
Bloody kiters
they pop up everywhere
Select to expand quoteseanhogan said..
wingsails ?
ttps://
That's how I always thought you'd get to the water from any car park south of Cott groyne! And that was 25 odd years ago too!
Select to expand quoteScrondies said..seanhogan said..
wingsails ?
ttps://
That's how I always thought you'd get to the water from any car park south of Cott groyne! And that was 25 odd years ago too!
Funny. Is that really you don't see the difference? Couse I can't see any sign of anology. Try to read MWsails.com , than tell me if it worked.
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..Subsonic said..vortex said..duzzi said..MWsails said..decrepit said..MWsails said..
>>>> I did not call him a liar . He just said that rig doest'n need to be changed with wind. This is a lie.
It's not a lie, it's interpretation of semantics. Just because people after absolute performance choose to change sails every 6kts, doesn't mean the average Joe has to!
This was my point much earlier on about efficiency. A sailor can only make use of as much power as they can counter balance, after that they have to sheet out, the excess sail area is then just drag. So it's not about sails being unstable out of their wind range, it's about different wind ranges for different weight sailors.
And no matter how good the wind range of any sail is, once the sailor is using all their weight to counterbalance it. With any increase in wind speed from there on, a smaller sail will be more efficient.
So I really can't see how your sails are any different in that respect, even if you only NEED 1 sail for the whole wind range, there's still going to be a fairly narrow band where it's most EFFICIENT, and this will vary with the riders weight, and to a certain extent height.
Everybody knows that if you use 7.0 at 14 kt it will fail at about 20 , Not because it generate too much power but because it become uncontrollable and useless. But before it fails it become slower, much slower, it doesn't generate more power it just center of power shifting rapidly and human can't react fast enough. The reason why wing has mega range it because center of power stays stationary disregard of wind speed, And this is why it faster, simply because it continuously generate lift while other sails fail.
This thread is hilarious: do you actually windsurf? A free race/race 7.0 works perfectly fine in 20 knots. I am no pwa level sailor, weight 68 kg, and I could take my 6.6/4 cams sail out when people were planing on 4.5 and be comfortable ... and I clocked my best speeds in those conditions: no becoming slower!
Oh this is because you're superman! You are the greatest of the great and you can handle everything! But for the rest of us who have to use 4.5 while you enjoy your 7.0 or whatever , I have wing sail with proper aerodynamics to enjoy.
Dont get me wrong here, im quite interested in some of the concepts youve put forward with this sail.
Im a bit lighter again than duzzi, and a 7.0 race sail is manageable in 20knots. 4.5 even in a wave sail, i'd be under done.
Im looking forward to hearing how people who've bought one of your wing sails go with it. And how it stacks up against a traditional cambered sail, in a real world test.
Look I can tune up and handle large sail in very (relatively to sq m area) strong winds while others wandering how it humanly possible ? And actually many of us can. But call it user friendly ... I can't. It is amazing to me when people claim how stable racing sail is. In reality majority of windsurfers don't like race sails at all. Retailers say that it is difficult to sell them , so they don't sack them, Also some sail brand sites say user friendly 40% . Stability and performance of wing sail and what you can do with it, is no near in comparison with any sail on the market. I would like to get more people involved writing reviews and share experience, but we are in between seasons, so not in the cards now. In meanwhile we're posting CFD blogs on our website where people can learn facts and compare traditional and wing sails. www.mwsails.com/blog
Here you go again. Your assumptions are false.
Race sails are stable. Efficient? ... Maybe not. The reason people in the US don't seem to like race sails, is not because they aren't stable or fast enough. It is that they are heavier, more expensive, & more complicated to rig & tune compared to say freeride or wave sails. They are willing to sacrifice ultimate performance for simplicity. Why would an average sailor want to use a bigger sail than they have to? If a performance oriented sailor can truly use a smaller sail to get more power, speed etc.. then THAT is your market.
Obviously I'm bored again to respond
, Having just helped my daughter with her marketing subject at Uni, The emphasis appeared to be on asking the customer what they wanted, and not deciding to produce something for the market without asking the customer and then telling them that this is the product that they need/want = Marketing 101 = probably explains the huge negative response, for something that could have been seen as a positive?
PS. If I had money to spare, for curiosity's sake and the advancement of windsurfing, I would buy one, and share it around the Western Australian windsurfing community, and ask for feedback?
Select to expand quotegorgesailor said..MWsails said..Subsonic said..vortex said..duzzi said..MWsails said..decrepit said..MWsails said..
>>>> I did not call him a liar . He just said that rig doest'n need to be changed with wind. This is a lie.
It's not a lie, it's interpretation of semantics. Just because people after absolute performance choose to change sails every 6kts, doesn't mean the average Joe has to!
This was my point much earlier on about efficiency. A sailor can only make use of as much power as they can counter balance, after that they have to sheet out, the excess sail area is then just drag. So it's not about sails being unstable out of their wind range, it's about different wind ranges for different weight sailors.
And no matter how good the wind range of any sail is, once the sailor is using all their weight to counterbalance it. With any increase in wind speed from there on, a smaller sail will be more efficient.
So I really can't see how your sails are any different in that respect, even if you only NEED 1 sail for the whole wind range, there's still going to be a fairly narrow band where it's most EFFICIENT, and this will vary with the riders weight, and to a certain extent height.
Everybody knows that if you use 7.0 at 14 kt it will fail at about 20 , Not because it generate too much power but because it become uncontrollable and useless. But before it fails it become slower, much slower, it doesn't generate more power it just center of power shifting rapidly and human can't react fast enough. The reason why wing has mega range it because center of power stays stationary disregard of wind speed, And this is why it faster, simply because it continuously generate lift while other sails fail.
This thread is hilarious: do you actually windsurf? A free race/race 7.0 works perfectly fine in 20 knots. I am no pwa level sailor, weight 68 kg, and I could take my 6.6/4 cams sail out when people were planing on 4.5 and be comfortable ... and I clocked my best speeds in those conditions: no becoming slower!
Oh this is because you're superman! You are the greatest of the great and you can handle everything! But for the rest of us who have to use 4.5 while you enjoy your 7.0 or whatever , I have wing sail with proper aerodynamics to enjoy.
Dont get me wrong here, im quite interested in some of the concepts youve put forward with this sail.
Im a bit lighter again than duzzi, and a 7.0 race sail is manageable in 20knots. 4.5 even in a wave sail, i'd be under done.
Im looking forward to hearing how people who've bought one of your wing sails go with it. And how it stacks up against a traditional cambered sail, in a real world test.
Look I can tune up and handle large sail in very (relatively to sq m area) strong winds while others wandering how it humanly possible ? And actually many of us can. But call it user friendly ... I can't. It is amazing to me when people claim how stable racing sail is. In reality majority of windsurfers don't like race sails at all. Retailers say that it is difficult to sell them , so they don't sack them, Also some sail brand sites say user friendly 40% . Stability and performance of wing sail and what you can do with it, is no near in comparison with any sail on the market. I would like to get more people involved writing reviews and share experience, but we are in between seasons, so not in the cards now. In meanwhile we're posting CFD blogs on our website where people can learn facts and compare traditional and wing sails. www.mwsails.com/blog
Here you go again. Your assumptions are false.
Race sails are stable. Efficient? ... Maybe not. The reason people in the US don't seem to like race sails, is not because they aren't stable or fast enough. It is that they are heavier, more expensive, & more complicated to rig & tune compared to say freeride or wave sails. They are willing to sacrifice ultimate performance for simplicity. Why would an average sailor want to use a bigger sail than they have to? If a performance oriented sailor can truly use a smaller sail to get more power, speed etc.. then THAT is your market.
Probably you misunderstood me, or we misunderstood each other. I don't go after race sails. It's just someone brought it up as a benchmark for stability and speed. Any sail, including race, can not compare in stability and overall performance with wing. The core of design of wing is different and more advanced than simple curved plate profile. Yes, wing is stable, faster, better, but I'm not going after racing market at all. Because majority of sailors want reliable and enjoyable ride. Not everyone wants racing skis, or race car, or go faster than anyone else. What I'm trying to tell here, is that my sail is so good, stable , safe , reliable that it will instantly make you a better sailor. For how long people were dreaming about sail that doesn't need up-haul , sail that doesn't sink, sail that doesn't overpowers at all? Our sport is getting smaller and smaller and reason for it, not many youth wants to go through difficult learning curve. Imagine you bring your wife, girlfriend of child, rig one sail and she or he will stay with you on the water entire secession with no complain, about too much wind, too big sail etc. ,just enjoy the whole day! This is what my sail is all about. Don't ask me to break speed record or win event, I don't want to do it . But if you so competitive, Just take my sail, get to the right conditions and it will do it for you. This technology set to win. Anyway, you don't have to get my sail now , you can wait until someone gives you proof or whatever you re waiting for. . Wingsail is here and its here to stay.
Select to expand quotehardie said..
Obviously I'm bored again to respond, Having just helped my daughter with her marketing subject at Uni, The emphasis appeared to be on asking the customer what they wanted, and not deciding to produce something for the market without asking the customer and then telling them that this is the product that they need/want = Marketing 101 = probably explains the huge negative response, for something that could have been seen as a positive?
PS. If I had money to spare, for curiosity's sake and the advancement of windsurfing, I would buy one, and share it around the Western Australian windsurfing community, and ask for feedback?
Okay Hardie next time before inventing anything , I'll ask you: what you want? But now you have to deal with harsh reality.
Select to expand quoteMWsails said.. . Any sail, including race, can not compare in stability and overall performance with wing. The core of design of wing is different and more advanced than simple curved plate profile. Yes, wing is stable, faster, better......
SHOW US
(I'm done now)
Select to expand quoteMWsails said..hardie said..
Obviously I'm bored again to respond, Having just helped my daughter with her marketing subject at Uni, The emphasis appeared to be on asking the customer what they wanted, and not deciding to produce something for the market without asking the customer and then telling them that this is the product that they need/want = Marketing 101 = probably explains the huge negative response, for something that could have been seen as a positive?
PS. If I had money to spare, for curiosity's sake and the advancement of windsurfing, I would buy one, and share it around the Western Australian windsurfing community, and ask for feedback?
Okay Hardie next time before inventing anything , I'll ask you: what you want? But now you have to deal with harsh reality.
Dear MW, it is your marketing that is the problem, not your inventiveness, i think most comments reflect this. You have failed most of the basic principles of Marketing 101 and you get an "F". Regarding your inventiveness that definitely gets a pass, what grade is what is debatable, because you have no scientific data to show the claimed superiority of your product?
So many wise minds here have advised you and your responses have reflected at the very least an inability to receive feedback, at worst.........
Select to expand quotehardie said..MWsails said..hardie said..
Obviously I'm bored again to respond, Having just helped my daughter with her marketing subject at Uni, The emphasis appeared to be on asking the customer what they wanted, and not deciding to produce something for the market without asking the customer and then telling them that this is the product that they need/want = Marketing 101 = probably explains the huge negative response, for something that could have been seen as a positive?
PS. If I had money to spare, for curiosity's sake and the advancement of windsurfing, I would buy one, and share it around the Western Australian windsurfing community, and ask for feedback?
Okay Hardie next time before inventing anything , I'll ask you: what you want? But now you have to deal with harsh reality.
Dear MW, it is your marketing that is the problem, not your inventiveness, i think most comments reflect this. You have failed most of the basic principles of Marketing 101 and you get an "F". Regarding your inventiveness that definitely gets a pass, what grade is what is debatable, because you have no scientific data to show the claimed superiority of your product?
So many wise minds here have advised you and your responses have reflected at the very least an inability to receive feedback, at worst.........
Your wise minds still discussing superiority of thin airfoils. So lets get "wise" out equation. Your minds need do some catch up with time. 2018 now FYI . Happy new year. Scietific data is on my webpage , CFD blog. Update every Friday. MWsails.com
Had a good read of this loooong thread today. Catching up. I missed a bit because I have been flying around the river everyday on my 7.9 in 15-25 knots. Chasing all the other recreational dudes on their race sails.
Is this coming week good wingsail weather? PS, wind not good tomorrow, might go to work!
Lots of unsubstantiated claims of superior product. No independent comparative testing available. Good marketing advice not being heeded.
I'm done too.
