wishing linda a speedy recovery
www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes
So shocked to hear this. Wishing Linda all the best. Have had some great sails with Linda which I remember as the good old days and the old Ballina crew.
WTF we know what is happening, everyone knows what is happening but no one in authority seems to give a toss. Our area has been reduced , there is more competition for available water space, and those hirers seem to have had little if any instruction. I like many have had many close calls but the authorities say they want a rego number. Who has a pencil etc out on the water? In a way it has become us against them.
I hope the Prof and Mr Walsh are engaging in a war of words.
I think there should be more stuff jammed into the Broadwater. Rob Mundle is only planning a couple more marinas, an underwater stadium and a permanent cruise ship near Seaworld. 
I don't think this is near enough! 
Why not also put a car race track, luxury hotel and a golf course in? Oh yeah, what about a dune buggy hire on the sand bank near us? There is a lot of wasted sand there you know.
www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes
It's long, but to the point. My complaint letter to Greg Turner.
What do you think?
Hi Greg,
Unfortunately I was out on the Broadwater on Monday when a fellow sailboarder was run over by someone on a hire jet ski. The girl was pretty shaken up with blood all over her face. Asked what happened and she said "they just ran over me"
I believe that Sailboard Safaris where the hire operators at fault. They had the operator leading and in this case 1 jet ski with 2 people following off to the side of the main channel. I have witnessed hire operators on many occasions leading large groups recklessly along the main channel in rough water, darting in and out of channels between sandbanks with no defined area of operation. The operator is sometimes hundred of meters in front of the last jet ski occasionally looking back and a long way from offering any supervision.
I just cannot understand how the Maritime authority can allow just anyone to hop on a high powered jet ski and go tearing about the Broadwater risking everyone's lives!
It is my understanding that the registration of the PWC is conditional upon the following:
• It is to operate as a commercial hire ship within defined smooth waters;
• When operated by an unlicensed person the ship's operation is confined to the geographical area endorsed by the regional harbour master
The Marine Safety guidelines also advise that;
• The provider must ensure user is appropriately licensed if user of a hire and drive ship intends the ship to be operated under power at more than 10kn while the ship is not in direct line of sight of supervision.
Greg, I don't need to get the rule book out for anyone to realise that what these operators are doing is dangerous so why has this practice been allowed to continue with no action taken?
This is not an isolated incident!
All Sailboarders have stories of near misses! I was bumped by a guy on a hire jet-ski. I could see him coming downwind at full speed and expected him to change direction but he just did not see me until the last moment when he spun the jet ski around and fell off- due to their inexperience they only look in front where they are going and not aware of other craft. I suspect this is what happened on Monday.
Incredibly in the busiest part of the Broadwater, the Maritime authority have approved at least 3 hire companies –all competing with sailboarders, jet boats and the numerous other private craft. If I had a choice I would not sail in this area. Unfortunately sailboarding is confined to areas where the prevailing wind conditions align to a clear stretch of water.
I understand several sailboarders have raised concerns over the hire jet ski's in the past and bought to your attention but it appears that nothing has been done.
Recently a request was made directly to yourself to move some markers that designate a jet ski hire area. The northern markers overlap a regular path taken by sailboarders for the last 20+ years and require to be moved only 10 meters South of their present position to allow separation. Coincidently this is just 10m from where the above collision occurred! It was distressing to find the very next day after the above collision that sailboarders had to chris-cross hire jet ski's operating at high speed again risking collision. To make matters worse, the blue markers used to designate a hire area are regularly used as rounding marks, further increasing the hire area and impact to sailboarders- again with no intervention of the maritime authority.
Greg, After a safety issue has been raised why has no action has been taken?
In a recent Coroners Report on the death of a jet ski hirer the Coroner commented;
The approach of many operators and Maritime Safety Queensland to the requirements imposed by the Hire and Drive Standard
2007 and enforcement of those requirements seemed casual and cavalier and alarming in nature.
Unfortunately despite the death and many incidents the attitude of the Maritime Authority appears “Unchanged”
I look forward to your reply and getting some action on making the Broadwater safer for everyone!
Great Phil thanks for that on behalf of us all.
I wrote to Greg 18months ago and posted my letter on this forum stating a fatal accident was only a matter of time, well thank god my prediction were wrong in some parts, it is only a matter of time if things do not change and this will happen again, and if one of those jet boats hit you your gone never mind a jet ski.
I was there when you was hit at the Grand, if he had been one second later turning i am not sure if you would be writing this letter.
I Dont want to see any of these businesses close but unless they can get their act together which will cost with extra supervision and monitoring, the price for hire will be driven up and i guess sooner or later it just gets too expensive and to hard.
Good letter Philnott, I assume Sailboard Safaris should be Jetski Safaris? Got to keep us as the goodies here.
Good on ya phil. I have also posted the following on another thread and feel its relevant to this one as the two are related and the more ammo we have to avoid such incidents the better!!
Firstly I would like to wish Linda a Speedy recovery and hope she is back on the water soon.
I have filled in the feedback form and will be posting it out today.
Changing the laws of PWC hirers is one thing, but I dont think its just the Hire operators that should ensure their hirers are competent. Retailers should be doing their bit also. I think that if Retailers ensure their customers are aware (as well as Hirers) of the accidents and fatalities that have already occured and the consequences/charges they face in the event of negligence or misuse, it may just make them think twice about how they operate these craft.
I dont know the statistics but I would assume that the number of owner/drivers has probably increased in the last few years so maybe PWC retailers should be made to do their bit also. I feel it is only a matter of time before their are more PWC owner/drivers using the waterways than their already is. In Sydney the numbers of owner,drivers have increased on Botany bay so i feel the chances are they will here. They are now experiencing similar problems but with owners as opposed to Hired craft. For those who havent just read the NSW section.
Maybe it would be a good idea to post the articles of the recent incidents on Jetski Forums. It may just help to make them think about how they ride their craft a bit more.
Just trying to do my bit!!
Once again, Get well soon Linda
Reply from Greg Turner- Conclusion "They could'nt give a stuff!!!!"
As my email particulars have been sent around the local windsurfing community and having received a few emails from members of the local club on the same subject, I will provide the following response to you which I have sent to other members.
Thank you for your email regarding the jetskis and interaction with passive craft, in particular windsurfers. As you may be aware Neil Walsh from the club has contacted me many times over the past 2 years regarding the issues you have raised but mostly regarding the nearby penned jet ski hire circuit and much work has been done with that operator in regards to windsurfer safety.
Maritime Safety Queensland is currently reviewing the arrangements for hire and drive personal watercraft especially those that do not require the hirer to have a licence. A discussion paper on the safety of hire and drive personal watercraft has been on Maritime Safety Queensland's web site since November 2010 while requests for submissions from the public closed on 4 February 2011. I have been advised that 82 submissions were received and the content of those submissions is currently being evaluated. Personally, I believe that there will be changes to the way hire and drive personal watercraft are operated in Queensland.
I also agree that there needs to be changes to address the interaction of both powered and passive craft in the Broadwater area south of Wavebreak Island. As you have pointed out there are many persons conducting activities in a concentrated area all competing for their piece of water space. Even the moorings to which you refer (these are administrated by Maritime Safety Queensland and not the council) are a much sought after commodity which have the need for space on the water and conflict with the windsurfers run.
We often have various water sports groups or clubs "tell" MSQ what needs to be done on the water to improve safety, however, mostly they only ever provide advice on how to "fix it for them". It's not as easy when the entire water user population needs to be catered for and we attempt to ensure that all users get a fair go. This is not to say that improvements aren't considered and we do consult with the public and make changes based on input of waterway users, it is difficult to make everyone happy.
I appreciate your email and its content and this office will continue to work to improve the safety of all waterway users.
I also wrote to Greg Turner and got exactly the same response as Phil - here's my letter for what it's worth (very long I'm afraid)
What really ticks me off about his response is where he implies that we're only interested in our own benefit - I'm going to respond to MSQ about this because it seems to me that windsurfers are about the only ones who aren't being heard by MSQ - obviously they listened to houseboat owners when they set 14 mooring buoys in the area and commercial jet ski operators when they let them set up three franchises within about one kilometre. How come windsurfers aren't being listened to?
Dear Captain Turner,
After yet another serious incident on the Southport Broadwater, this time involving a jetski and serious injuries to a windsurfer, I am writing to lend my support to previous efforts made to improve the safety of all users of the Broadwater
I regularly windsurf from the spot known as the Train, situated at the end of North Street as do dozens of other windsurfers. I learned to windsurf at this spot which used to be one of the safest places for learners and I know that many others have also learned in this area. The Train and the area opposite Central Street are probably the only places on the Broadwater that beginners and intermediate windsurfers can sail safely due to the sandbanks and the fact that power craft users are supposedly restricted in terms of the speed they are able to travel in these areas. They are also safe areas for other users of the Broadwater, particularly families, to swim, kayak and paddle.
Of late however, this has all changed with the establishment of three jetski hire franchises which have been allowed to set up operations in these two areas and hire these craft out to unlicensed, inexperienced and frequently inconsiderate individuals who seem to be intent on getting speed thrills irrespective of the risks to themselves and to other users of the Broadwater. The latest incident is a stark example of what can happen when jstskiers fail to obet basic navigational rules.
In my experience the operator of the franchise opposite Central Street has been relatively responsible by restricting the speed of his customers and the area within which they are allowed to operate the jetskis (However I noticed yesterday that this operator seems to have greatly expanded the area of water he takes up with his course making it basically impossible for windsufers to avoid this area as they have done in the past). In turn, windsurfers have acted responsibly by avoiding the marked area where the jetskis operate when that area is being used.
Sadly this is not the case with the two operators who have set up operations close to the Train and I have experienced several near misses where out of control jetskis have forced me off my board to avoid collision and/or serious injury. Worse still the operators have made no attempt to caution their clients against their reckless behaviour, prefering instead to abuse me for getting in their way. The operator of the Jetski Safari business involved in this latest incident also operates in what would seem to be an equally irresponsible way by encouraging and permitting its clients to travel at excessive speeds all the way up the Broadwater without even a designated course which others can avoid.
This problem has also been exacerbated by the positioning of one operator's course immediately south of the sandbank opposite the Train which, in Northeasterly conditions, is the only place windsurfers can sail and turn around due to the number of craft moored either permanently on Council moorings or temporarily. It is also made worse by the presence of the two Jetboat operators who also seem to ignore basic safety rules and manouver their craft close to windusrfers, fishermen and others in what can only be seen as a reckless manner. The latest incident, in which a windsurfer was seriously injured, highlights the danger of allowing inexperienced jetski users to operate in such close proximity to other Broadwater users (not just windsurfers) and it seems only a matter of time before another fatality results from the current situation.
I recognise that there is no simple solution to these problems and that some approaches (such as legislation restricting the use of jetskis to those individuals with licenses) will take time. However I believe that there are some solutions which can be (and should be) implemented quite quickly and which would not necessarily disadvantage any of the competing interests.
One of these would be to designate the area of the Broadwater opposite the Train as a 'passive recreation area' which excludes the use of all power craft for anything but limited access and which limits speeds to 6 knots for any power craft which need to access this area.
Another would be to enforce the agreement I believe MSQ negotiated whereby the course used by the jetski operator south of the sandbank opposite the Train is moved far enough south to provide a safe buffer between windsurfers and jetskis. This course should be set based on low tide levels which would provide for windsurfers during low tides and should be fixed rather than the current situation where that operator sets the course wherever he feels fit.
I believe that MSQ and Council should consider relocating the operation of jetski hire companies and Jetboat operators to areas of the Broadwater North of Crab Island where the Broadwater is wider and their only competiton for space would be with other power craft users who are much more able to manouver safely to avoid each other.
I also believe that if jetski and Jetboat operators are to be allowed to continue to operate in their current locations then rules should be applied (and enforced by MSQ and the Queensland Police Service) to limit the speed of these craft to 6 knots in any part of the Broadwater south of Central Street and certainly within a safe distance of any other craft.
Council should be encouraged to relocate the moorings opposite the Train to another area. This in turn would provide a safer area for windsurfers in both SE and NE conditions so that they can avoid sailing within navigational channels when these are busy. It would solve the problem of these moorings being used by party boats and long term houseboat residents who can quite easily moor somewhere else. There are a great many safe anchorages already available to the cruising community and this area, so close to Southport and the new recreation areas between the Train and Sundale Bridge seems particularly inappropriate.
I would like to say that I believe that windsurfers can share the Broadwater safely and responsibly with other users and I am certainly not looking to exclude other users completely from these areas. However it is now perfectly clear that commercial operators of jetskis and jetboats and sail powered craft simply do not mix safely and so some separation needs to occur while other, longer term, solutions are devised. Without these it will not be long before someone else is injured or killed in this very restricted area of the Broadwater
Hope you get well soon Linda!!! Always good to see you sailing when I was at the train!!! Hope you get on the water again soon!!!!
Just some info !
RE - 2008 jetski Accident
Corners recommendations from 2008 incident - released 11 March 2010
Recommendation 1
That all PWC hire and drive operations be inspected and audited on a regular basis, including at least one yearly covert audit. That full records and documentation be maintained of all interaction between Maritime Safety Queensland officers and PWC hire and drive operations. That a quality assurance program for all hire and drive operations be developed.
Recommendation 2
That legislation be developed requiring all persons who use a PWC in Queensland be licensed.
Recommendation 3
That legislation be put in place requiring all PWC users to wear appropriately designed helmets for PWC.
Recommendation 4
That Maritime Safety Queensland develops guidelines for all enforcement agencies to assess compliance with the Transport Operations (Marine Safety – Hire and Drive Ships) Standard 2007 and facilitate the sharing for information between enforcement agencies.
Here's my two bob's worth in terms of Greg Turner's reply to Phil and I:
Greg
Thanks for your response and I do recognise that there are challenges. However I don't accept your final paragraph which seems to imply that the solutions I suggested "only fix it" for windsurfers - far from it the solutions I put forward are intended to protect all users of the Broadwater including kite surfers, kayakers, responsible powerboat operators and swimmers, any one of whom could have been the victim in this latest incident (and the fatality involving a jetskier two years ago).
One of the challenges of good government is listening to all interest groups and ensuring that none receive preferential treatment and in this respect I don't believe MSQ is doing very well at all - obviously it has listened to a few houseboat owners and placed additional moorings in the area (at the expense of windsurfers). It has listened to three commercial jet ski operators and allowed them to locate their businesses in the area (at the expense of windsurfers). It has listened to the operators of two jet boats and allowed them to operate in the area (at the expense of windsurfers). In fact the only group it doesn't seem to have listened to is the windsurfing community (which was there long before these other interest groups and probably comprises a larger number of people than any of the others).
We're not asking for much - just to move one jetski company a few metres south, ensure that everybody obeys basic (and longstanding) safety rules and protect us from being killed or injured by stopping 'hoon' behaviour .
I doubt whether sending letters to MSQ will achieve anything. They're just public servants clocking on clocking off. Now if a politician feels that some kind of scandal may endanger their phoney baloney gravey train job they freaking well jump into action with zeal and vote winning zest. Forget the powerless pen pushing bureaucrats.They don't seem to care. Direct any kind of campain toward whatever State Pollie is responsible. They love a self righteous publicity crusade. Life is not fair and sometimes we have to manipulate the system we're stuck with.
All the best.
unfortunately jetski operators and moored boats pay for their right to be there. Windsurfers pay nothing and in the scheme of things it is such a small community.
How many complaints have been registered to msq and water police of dangerous activity including the details of the jetski or hire company?
Hi, first of all I hope the lady who had accident will be ok, but I think all you windsurfers can t blame the jetski operator or driver for this accident, If you know we all try to share the broadwater, the recreational vessels and watersporters and the commercial vessels which include the Jetski's.
All the operators are navigating through the channel which is normally very busy as you know to stay away from the windsurfers and now the windsurfers coming into the channel, I personally think this lady is been very lucky that it was a jetski and not a big ferry because the story would have been totally diferent.
So just stay out of the channel which is only about 40 meters wide and there wont be any accidents especially because most windsurfers expect everybody to go out of their way for them because they are non motorised.
So if everybody just study the rules on the water non motorised and motorised vessel and take evasive action which in this case means for both parties this would have never happened.
So whoever came up with this bright idea of lets join together to get more rules for the motorised vessels especially jetski's, maybe you should think about joining together and stay out of the channel there is enough space outside the channels to surf or out at sea if you are all that good.
Hopefully this helps show the situation
there's one particular jet ski marker (top right in pic) south of a sandbar that is an issue. it never used to be there, unsure who even put it there, and it only needs to be moved 20metres further south (more would be better) as shown by purple pointer, it won't affect the jetski hire's run in any substantial way, if it does have a major impact then no one has ever indicated why it would, and a lot of people will be very happy and safer as as a result 
The area circled in red is very difficult to sail now because of all the new houseboats moared there, so all that's left of the safe area is the run inbetween the houseboats and jetskiis (a short 300 metres or so). in reality there are many more houseboats in this area than shown in this picture.
It's a difficult situation for sailors here as far as wind direction goes.
- if there's too much "north" in the wind, sailors must sail into the houseboats
- if there's too much "east" in the wind then they must sail right into the jet skis
the marker is not in a main boating channel.
what the hell is a "jetski marker" ? Just move it.[}:)]...I mean ,it may drag 20 meters in this big blow tomorrow....(upwind?)
Get well Linda, hope to see you out there soon.
A few incedences I've seen in the broadwater.
I recently witnessed a group of 5 jetskis one afternoon heading west along the channel north of the sandbank, it was reasonably low tide and three of them ended up beaching themselves on the shallows on the north of the channel.The sun was in their eyes so they obviously did not know the channel nor knew how to read navigation marks. I'm guessing they were doing 20 knots or so. Lucky for them no one was injured, could have easily ended up worse.
Last weekend I saw a couple towing their kids around on a tube behind a jetski in the middle of the channel outside Seaworld. I couldn't believe it.
A couple of years ago my girlfreind and I were practicing with a kite in the shallows where the reclaimed land is now just south of the fishing tackle shop.
In an hour and a half we saw no less than five boats of various sizes run aground. They all looked confused and lost.
Again, these people had little or no sea skills, they can't read navigation marks. How do they get their licences? Do they forget their skills?
I have lost count of how may times I have seen the jetboats disobey navigation marks. With paying passengers surely they must be required by law to obey them.
Over the xmas period I was windsurfing from shearwater and saw a jetski heading my way, I slowed down to let it pass, the jetski also slowed but did not change its course. At about ten metres away I dropped the sail in the water and with me in the water too the jetski did not seem to be able to steer and blew into my board. Without even looking at me or saying anything the teenage girl driving and passenger simply looked away, opened the throttle and sped off.
You can imagine my view of the typical jetskier!
This may not be constructive, but it shows what goes on out there. While I do know many people exercise great care when boating there seems to be also many who don't or are just blase' about safety.
If you have an accident in a car there is a good chance there will be someone close by to help out or notify emergency services . On water however it's not that easy and I don't think a lot of boaters realise how quick things can go wrong.
Potter maybe you should look at the craft a bit more- on normal (slalom/freeride/wave gear) a sailboard needs the same amount of water to run in as my boat. Some boards run up to a 70cm fin, the only place you can sail there is the channels. Jetskis, kites & jetboats can all run in less water. From a safety perspective sailboards "should" run in minimum half metre of water as during a crash you often get pitched forward & down into the water.
Sailing in the ocean has nothing at all to do with ability, some gear is suited to flat water and some to surf/open water. You wouldn't take a flatwater kayak into the ocean, if you could negotiate the conditions it just isn't built for it. Guys with race equipment aren't going to risk $8000 worth to sail where it is convenient for you.
From what i've found with being around boats all my life is that most sail powered craft operators (sailboards included) are more aware of the road rules at sea than powered craft. A generalisation of course but maybe it's because it takes a little bit longer in learning how to use them rather than at best a 4 hour course and being able to do a figure 8.
I wonder if Mr Potter condones running over pedestrians crossing the road?
"Stay off the road you pedestrians!!!! OR ELSE!!!"
I think Mr Potter is a little insensative in his remarks and obviously knows nothing about our sport.
If a very educated Doctor cannot get to grips with a 5 minsbriefing/ instructions on operating a jetski what chance as a non English speaking tousist.
I think the only people who like jet skis are the people who own them, i know the residents at deep water point and the Grand Hotel had a "noise" campaign when they operated from the charis area.They also rev there engines like crazy when cleaning them i think.
Just to add another angle should that jet ski operator be allowed to operate and park his van on the grass at the train there, takes parking bays, stores fuel and has a very exclusive piece of real estate!
Those paragliding boats can be very agressive also especially the one with the blue carpet on the back.
I was actually hit by a jet ski on the south bank were we are talking about and phoned it in to the authorities, i was asked to pop in with two witnesses and sign a stat dec, as i wasnt injured i didnt bother wish i had now, probably a year ago
Sonic, thanks very much for the aerial pic and overlays, makes the situation much clearer. Keep up the fight guys, I cannot see however how sailboards and totally novice jetski riders can ever share that same tiny channel? Moving the marker seems the only solution.
