review from facebook armie page :
HA780 v2 Review
Perspective: The HA925 has been my daily driver and favorite foil for winging for the past 3 seasons. Until yesterday.
I rode the new HA780 (60cm fuse, HP935 mast, Surf 205 tail, blue shim, 70L Wing FG board) yesterday and was blown away. From the first pump of the wing (XPS 4.6 and 3.5), I could tell this was a magic foil.
Background: I'm a 60 year old medium-advanced winger, (jibes & tacks both sides, handle-pass tacks, lots of swell riding in knee to waist high rolling bay swell.) 77KG/170lbs, dry. Full Disclosure: I don't get paid to post positive reviews. Here are my take-aways:
Review: This wing foils with what feels like no forward speed. The HA780 comes out of the water in a predictable and linear way.
This foil is a skateboard. It's the first foil I've ever ridden which feels like you could crank a waterski-type bottom turn and really push against the foil.
The stall speed is unbelievable. I could almost pivot a tack at zero MPH and the foil didn't drop out. It's like the thing has a power source of its own.
Speed wise, the HA780 isn't quite as fast as the HA925 and probably doesn't glide as well. It's close, but the trade-off for turning and non-existent stall speed is a game changer, particularly in dicey conditions where the wind might drop and you'd need to get back to the launch without coming off foil. It's making me reconsider my foil quiver and what my light-wind foil will be. I swear the HA780 had similar stall speed as my HS1850!
If you're an HA925 lover and curious about the new HA foils, get on one. The HA780 blew my mind yesterday.
There's definitely some Armie Armstrong sorcery here!
.....,,..
and also some prone footage riding with JW
From reading the review. I can sense the trend in the front wing design. Most newer wing realease recently tend to have pretty high aspect AR 8-10 but has the foil profile that ride bigger than its surface area implied.
Higher camber at the mid section made the lift more gradual and lower the stall speed so it start easier to use. And tthey have more twist in the wing tip so it turn better and more forgiving.
The tradeoff is the lower top speed which is totally fine IMO. The foil is more fun and easier to ride for most users for majority of their riding.
I tried the 680 and 780 yesterday in 30 knots average wind, gusts up to 37 knots.
180 speed stab no shim
It was quite hectic going upwind against the chop but going downwind was very nice.
Perhaps a 205 surf or 140 dart stab or shimming the 180 would have made it easier to control.
Still have not been able to find out how much wind I need to get going on the 680, 780 and 880 because I always had too much wind.... I would like to get all 3 but that will be too expensive
Some personal feedback on the 780.
So had two DW winging runs yesterday with the 780 / 180 red with a 3m xps in 20-25.
Firstly i was filming Antman Supping DW (he was using the 880 / 140 blue) so that's some testimony right there on the speed, glide and pitch / yaw stability to keep up fully flagged.
It def is closer to the 925 / Ma 1000 speed and glide wise - but as you'd expect not quite the same as the 925 (you can't have everything). That being said you then didn't over shoot the bumps once of them and could generate enough speed and glide to link swell lines due to its stability and being able to carve hard and fast at will.
Whilst you always will lose some ability to pump and crazy low stall speed of the 880 - it had just enough to dig yourself out of a stalled hole behind a wave to chip across onto the next set of swells.
Apart from the obvious benefits given by a smaller wing span there was a characteristic i had predicted / hoped for and i was proven right. The 780 really responded to higher cadence (aka like we used on the old Has) which in turn generated more pump speed. This really helped not only digging out of near stalled holes, but allowed me at times to generate enough forward pump speed to get over the back and onto a swell line. Then you could resume the more drawn out slower cadence which helped bop onto those multiple smaller chip swells whilst waiting for the next decent swell set to catch you up.
Basically it had more pump gears than the 880. hence Im now predicting one could bridge some of the pump loss gap with the 880 when prone surfing, yet then get all the surfing benefits of the smaller wing span.
Just a theory but looking forward to finding out.
ps this fatty is at 81kg at the moment.
Two windy sessions in on 580. Riding 2.8m wing in head to 3-4ft overhead big roller Kailua swell where it stands up and breaks then backs off until next section. I had some connected glides that were easily over 100 meters.
Compared to 725.
Lift and glide very similar. Better pitch stability but side to side is a lot like the 525. Very low stall speed for such a small foil. I could almost stop and pull myself in a pivot on a jibe.
So far speed is similar to 725 but slower than 525. I'm using a blue shim and the 180 tail. Plan to try the red shim. I wasn't a big fan of the 140 tail on smaller foils but I imagine a lighter or more skilled rider could do magic with that.
Position of mast was 1cm closer to tail from where I would go with 725 or MA800
Compared to MA800.
580 has more lift and much better glide. It's easier to get on foil (less drag to get to speed). Can turn it hard on wave like MA800 without fear of breach.
MA800 handles white water wash better. 580 still a little sketchy in deep foam.
Very fun foil and I'm cautiously optimistic I'll be able to to get it going in 12-14kts with bigger wing. Once up, could easily see maintaining foil down to 8-12kts.
Spent some time on the HA680 the last two times out. What a great foil.
Conditions were good on a 4m and a 5.5M (kinda lit) with surf ranging from breaking chest to head high to overhead big rollers with steep drops.
In the chest to head high stuff it was so fun. Incredible glide, easy to stay with the face of the wave and a bit more stable than the 580 through white water. Low end speeds were crazy and it was pretty easy to get on foil (I'm 75-80kg). There is definitely more glide than the 725. I would argue its almost as much at I've found on the 925.
In the bigger faster stuff it felt a little big on a double overhead roller where the face dropped steep in front of me. If I'd been on the 580 I could have dropped in without worry, if I was a bigger (or better) rider the 680 would have been fine.
I was a little worried about the 580 and 680 being too close in size. I'm not anymore. They both have their place and I can easily see the 680 being a daily driver for a lot of my days on the water. I'll bring out the 580 when the waves are more than 2-3 foot overhead.
i'm towing with the 680 tomoz with 180 red on the new 40L in hopefully decent conditions. will report back.
Yeah the 725 definitely has a quicker acceleration, especially along the upper speed range, while the 680 can be pushed to these higher speeds, it takes a bit more effort (wing or wave) and time to get there. In other words, the 680 has a pretty wide sweet spot speed range, just feels a bit under the 725 - what you gain on the low end, you lose a bit on the top end. That being said, I've yet to feel overfoiled in solid chest high gorge like conditions, even easily surviving a flat breach going around 20mph without foot straps.
I'll add... where I felt a bit "over foiled" I was also a bit overpowered on my hand wing. I'm not sure it would have been as pronounced if I was towing or had a smaller hand wing. Like MAF, up to a few feet overhead, I was able to drop in without any worry of things going sideways (aside from my own doing).
Low end testing for 680 today. I'm sitting around 80kg these days, riding 69L board, 935 mast, 180 tail plus a 5.5 Ezzy Wing.
Did three sessions today, conditions ranging from 10-15 knots to one session that was 8 to barely 12. It took some work to get on foil in the lightest session, but once up, the 680 stays up. Low wind gybes were easy. Waves were mostly chest high. For me, I can't see why I would possibly want a bigger foil for winging, the 680 is still getting up and is so incredibly fun to ride even in these super light conditions.
Armstrong did really well with these, by far my favorite. The older HA are great for speed, the MA is great for surf turning. The new HA are a great happy medium between those two but with the added benefit of stability and crazy glide.
Finally got a session on the HA680. 935 mast, 50 fuse, Speed 180, red shim, KT Dragonfly 7.7, 4m KT DD. Wind was light initially, maybe 12 knots inside and later on 20 on the outside. Windswell of 1-3', so nothing to write home about. What the hell; this foil gets up easily, turns great, pumps well, and has stupidly low stall speed and good top end without any sketchiness. Really enjoyed riding this foil! Best 3 second speed of just over 25 knots and one run of 28 knots high speed (there's more on tap for sure). Great speed range. Can't call this foil slow but the ease of use and ability to nurse low speed turns while remaining on foil is excellent even at 90 kilos. Much better pitch stability than the 725 and you can turn very, very hard without it doing anything unexpected. Looking forward to spending more time on it! I wouldn't be afraid to get the 580 at all if I was a little lighter; it'll be a ripper. The new HAs seem to love operating in their middle power band but will happily go faster or slower without getting weird.