Armstrong NEW Ha

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
Any of you guys riding the Wing FG boards? I'm due to start thinking about a new board. For last three years I've been riding a Jimmy Lewis custom 69L 4'8"X23" It's still a great board, but I'm wondering about performance gains in surf if I were to switch to the Armstrong 58L (I'm about 80kg). Note: with a gust and well timed chop, I can get my current board on foil in about 10-12 knots with the HA680 and a 5.5 meter wing. I'm curious if that would still be possible with the 58L Armstrong?

Thanks

I just started riding the armie 58L wing board with my 925cm2 / 72cm2 mast / 60cm fuse / 232cm2 stab and a 5.5m2 wing, at 72kg wearing a 5/4 wetsuit. I love it. I'm not keen on testing the low-end since it's cold, but I currently get started with minimum ~15 kts.
On a lake ... the waves are too small and fast to help below that wind range.

Other boards I've ridden (also armie) are an old-school 99L wing-sup, and a 39L wing-surf. The 58L provides just enough volume to reach a standing position and prevent the nose from sinking on the first, half-submerged, pump, whereas with the 39L wing-surf board, one slight misstep and you're sunk.

Once the 58L is on foil it feels identical to riding the 39L wing-surf board, which is not surprising as their outlines are very close. The weight difference jumping is almost unnoticeable - I recorded 17 jumps in a 2hr session and my arms are still attached! The compact shape is great for deep carving without dragging a rail. And, I love the beveled deck for feeling the edge of the board.

I'm super stoked with this board and how it integrates with my wing foiling development and conditions that I hope to ride. The only problem is that I can't afford a new HA foil (let alone figure out which size to buy) !!

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eppo said..

BoardMaverick said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Any of you guys riding the Wing FG boards? I'm due to start thinking about a new board. For last three years I've been riding a Jimmy Lewis custom 69L 4'8"X23" It's still a great board, but I'm wondering about performance gains in surf if I were to switch to the Armstrong 58L (I'm about 80kg). Note: with a gust and well timed chop, I can get my current board on foil in about 10-12 knots with the HA680 and a 5.5 meter wing. I'm curious if that would still be possible with the 58L Armstrong?

Thanks

I just started riding the armie 58L wing board with my 925cm2 / 72cm2 mast / 60cm fuse / 232cm2 stab and a 5.5m2 wing, at 72kg wearing a 5/4 wetsuit. I love it. I'm not keen on testing the low-end since it's cold, but I currently get started with minimum ~15 kts.
On a lake ... the waves are too small and fast to help below that wind range.

Other boards I've ridden (also armie) are an old-school 99L wing-sup, and a 39L wing-surf. The 58L provides just enough volume to reach a standing position and prevent the nose from sinking on the first, half-submerged, pump, whereas with the 39L wing-surf board, one slight misstep and you're sunk.

Once the 58L is on foil it feels identical to riding the 39L wing-surf board, which is not surprising as their outlines are very close. The weight difference jumping is almost unnoticeable - I recorded 17 jumps in a 2hr session and my arms are still attached! The compact shape is great for deep carving without dragging a rail. And, I love the beveled deck for feeling the edge of the board.

I'm super stoked with this board and how it integrates with my wing foiling development and conditions that I hope to ride. The only problem is that I can't afford a new HA foil (let alone figure out which size to buy) !!

Most would say a 680 but i recon a 780 with a 140/180 combo would be ideal to cover those winds - i assume to wind can be shifty on a lake ? Then just change tail and shims to suite conditions. I've be running the 880 with two red shims at the moment for DW and yesterday proning and it's unreal for pump on the 180. Note the new Ha won't land as well as say the MA.

wheat front wing you using ?

I'm riding an HAv1 925cm2 and feel over-powered and over-foiled above ~22kts. I can't do anything except crank upwind. Not complaining , cause it rides fairly nimble downwind, and I've got plenty to learn.

One quiver option is a 580/680, extending my range to bigger winds. A second option is a 780/880 replacement for my 925. A third option is a 980/1080, extending my range in lower winds in warmer months ??. Gonna sleep on it .

I had the same planof replacing the 925 with 880 - it doesn't work- go smaller. I got an 880 and subsequently bought a 580. The 880 will replace my 1125.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

BoardMaverick said..

I'm riding an HAv1 925cm2 and feel over-powered and over-foiled above ~22kts. I can't do anything except crank upwind. Not complaining , cause it rides fairly nimble downwind, and I've got plenty to learn.

One quiver option is a 580/680, extending my range to bigger winds. A second option is a 780/880 replacement for my 925. A third option is a 980/1080, extending my range in lower winds in warmer months ??. Gonna sleep on it .

Thank you for feedback on the 58L. Sounds worth considering.

At 80kg, I ended up opting for the 580 and 680 combo and they will cover most of the conditions I see winging (focus on catching ocean rollers that can get 2-3X overhead and steep and sand bar/reef surf). If the surf has good energy or I'm trying to go as fast as I can I use the 580. If the surf is head high or under I grab the 680.

Recently, there was a day that was around 8-10knots and, while I did get on foil with the 680 and 5.5M wing, a bigger foil would have helped a lot for take off. If I add another, it will be the 780.

IMHO:

-if surf gets over head high and there's enough wind, I want the 580 (still can easily make it get to foil with a 5.5 when there are 15 knot gusts)
-if there's surf with less wind and/or less than head high I want the 680
-if there's surf and wind is hovering around 10knots I find myself wanting a 780

-if I were a flat water person just trying to get out (I'm not), I would likely get the 880 instead of the 780

That's a helpful scale for consideration. I think the waves vs. flat water perspective is often overlooked, and so I appreciate your including that last data point. Thx

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BoardMaverick said..

I'm riding an HAv1 925cm2 and feel over-powered and over-foiled above ~22kts. I can't do anything except crank upwind. Not complaining , cause it rides fairly nimble downwind, and I've got plenty to learn.

One quiver option is a 580/680, extending my range to bigger winds. A second option is a 780/880 replacement for my 925. A third option is a 980/1080, extending my range in lower winds in warmer months ??. Gonna sleep on it .Oahuwaterwalker said..

-if I were a flat water person just trying to get out (I'm not), I would likely get the 880 instead of the 780

sorry. What's your weight please ??

just had my first session on 780 HA. i'm about 87 kgs, not a great winger, spent most of my time on 1850 HS. never tried earlier HA wings, but i finally decided to give these new HAs a try. i couldn't believe how easy it was, and like some have said, the stall speed is very similar to the 1850. i occasionally use a MA1225 when its really windy, and find i need to get some good speed going before trying to get the foil up, and the 780 is similar, but probably even less. and today it wasn't really windy (about 18 mph). though the swell wasn't much, i could immediately see the pumping/glide benefits of this wing over the 1850. very happy with the 780 and somewhat amazed that a wing this small could potentially replace my prior favorite 1850.

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Boracay.Villas said..
Wow ?? that's insane
to go from the 1850 happy place to the 780

so now I'm thinking ?? I could actually up my game and choose the dwp685. A more technical foil, but crikey! 1850 to 780 that's just nuts if true for winging

in my opinion we are getting ahead of ourselves to be honest. I've owned the 1850 a long way back and i wouldn't say it's compatable to the 880 of which I've used many times now even with stall speed.

i'll still use the 1850 for the lightest wing days, but yesterday convinced me the 780 will be my go-to for anything above that. i never stalled the thing out, even on my slowest jibes. though i got to say the 780 goes fast (by my standards, relative to 1850 certainly) and most of my jibes were faster than i'm used to. the only change i felt necessary was a tad bit more back foot pressure when slowing down, kind of like what i do kite foiling with my 800 CF (as opposed to the 1200 CF). btw, i used the 780 with flying v wing stablizer.

With regard to the A+ Mast and the new HA foils, I have an a A+ 85cm sitting in the garage that doesn't really get used because I sold a small child (just kidding, maybe) and bought the Performance 795 mast. If I get the 880 say to use instead of the MA1225/1000 will it work OK on the A+ mast because the tip loads/span is lower?
Or is the rake of the HPM a key part of the new HA set up?

With regard to the HS1850, I haven't used mine since I moved to the HS1250 and that hasn't been wet since I bought the MA1000/1225/1750. I imagine progressing straight to the new HA would be a huge change and a pretty steep learning curve.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

Boracay.Villas said..
Wow ?? that's insane
to go from the 1850 happy place to the 780

so now I'm thinking ?? I could actually up my game and choose the dwp685. A more technical foil, but crikey! 1850 to 780 that's just nuts if true for winging

in my opinion we are getting ahead of ourselves to be honest. I've owned the 1850 a long way back and i wouldn't say it's compatable to the 880 of which I've used many times now even with stall speed.

I'm with Eppo on this one. While I don't doubt that as a rider gets better they could get the 880 or 780 up on foil in pretty light wind, the 1850 is always going to win the lightest wind on foil fight (IMHO). If for no other reason than it takes a lot less effort and/or foiling experience to get the 1850 on foil. All this said, I found I reached a point where I realized I could go out on a giant foil in light wind and have a "meh" time or wait for another knot or two of wind and be on a foil that was exponentially more fun. Based on my experience with the 580/680 I also don't doubt that it would be possible for a lighter rider with good skills to get the 880 up in ridiculously low wind.

To me, this comparison needs a disclaimer for someone who is newer to the sport: "For anyone who is just learning, I would caution against thinking you can learn on a 780 or 880."

Yeh i'm just trying to be realistic to the average punter although i'm not doubting the observations others have made above about the great stall speed of the 780 and for some riders - with the right skill set then one you may get away with it. especially say with the addition of a DW board for light wing winging.

There is obviously much less drag as well than the 1850. That combined with its design being 3-4 years ahead than the old 1850 the possibility is there to explore. Just don't want to help create unrealistic hope for a lot of riders or at least mediate it a little.

As my 780 was delayed I demoed the 880 for 2 sessions now. Tried it with 140 tail and no shims. Im 70kg dry. Got a top speed at 46.1 km/h and had a blast. Really looking forward to the 780 as Im sure it will suite me even better.
now im considering what my foil for higher winds should be. the 580 is really tempting, my issue is that i really wanna do some free styling too.

anyone tried the new Has for that ?
would love to get some feed back on that.
The ma800 has bigger area than the 780 so im considering a 625, but people seem to agree that 800 is enough for winging . Waves in Sweden dont get too big , head high at best.
But if the new has work well for free style the 580/780 combo seems killer!! i ordered the 180 tail too but demoing the 140 made me regret that a bit.. 140 was so good! But I heard Cash prefers the 180 to make clean landings..

Now I received the 780 and did a video about it in 15-20 knots. This is not my full verdict but my on water impressions of what I thought. Combo is 780/140 shimmed red and blue. I think with this combo you are able to achieve pretty decent speeds BUT it accelerates slow. The HA925 for instance has very quick acceleration. Going to do a full review once I've "gathered all the data" :D Im not in any way pro nor do I always know what I'm talking about, but its fun to share my thoughts :D

?si=sa1yU0corZ0Bpa_7

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happysam said..
Now I received the 780 and did a video about it in 15-20 knots. This is not my full verdict but my on water impressions of what I thought. Combo is 780/140 shimmed red and blue. I think with this combo you are able to achieve pretty decent speeds BUT it accelerates slow. The HA925 for instance has very quick acceleration. Going to do a full review once I've "gathered all the data" :D Im not in any way pro nor do I always know what I'm talking about, but its fun to share my thoughts :D

?si=sa1yU0corZ0Bpa_7

give it some time. You will be surprised how quick you can get it - but i do know what you mean compare to the 925. Can't have ya cake and eat it - always a compromise somewhere hey.

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eppo said..

omg said..
HA880 question regarding the tail for pumping:

I (80kg plus wetsuit etc) usually ride SAB foils for winging but now demoed the HA880 and it came with 235 stab. I used it with no shim and an 86L Armie DW-board which I normally ride.

I liked the low end and especially the pumping and glide in smallish powerless wind swell we have here, and I was wondering what tail would you suggest to be used and how it would improve the setup or is the 235 ideal and how about shimming, would I get something better from the current set, please?

Thanks very much!

Honestly the 235 is a big pig tail, slow as a snail - its
holding back the high aspect performance in the wing. Unlock it .

Try a 180 with red shim, then go a red and a blue (which i have settled on - gets closer to the old HA feel acceleration and glide wise but with much better pitch and yaw control. Bring the mast forward a splash as well.

For even quicker speeds and crazy turn then the 140 with a blue.

Put a whole in the 235 and wear it as an ear ring.

100% Agree with eppo!

With any of the newer foils, the 235 is like putting a sea anchor on the end of your fuselage.

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Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

omg said..
HA880 question regarding the tail for pumping:

I (80kg plus wetsuit etc) usually ride SAB foils for winging but now demoed the HA880 and it came with 235 stab. I used it with no shim and an 86L Armie DW-board which I normally ride.

I liked the low end and especially the pumping and glide in smallish powerless wind swell we have here, and I was wondering what tail would you suggest to be used and how it would improve the setup or is the 235 ideal and how about shimming, would I get something better from the current set, please?

Thanks very much!

Honestly the 235 is a big pig tail, slow as a snail - its
holding back the high aspect performance in the wing. Unlock it .

Try a 180 with red shim, then go a red and a blue (which i have settled on - gets closer to the old HA feel acceleration and glide wise but with much better pitch and yaw control. Bring the mast forward a splash as well.

For even quicker speeds and crazy turn then the 140 with a blue.

Put a whole in the 235 and wear it as an ear ring.

100% Agree with eppo!

With any of the newer foils, the 235 is like putting a sea anchor on the end of your fuselage.

Honestly, its like having money taken out of my wallet automagically..... I was happy in my own little Flow 235 world until that moment!