Anyone try one of these yet? I'm torn between getting another Naish or one of these Armstrong 4.5m. Decisions decisions.....
Not wanting to diss these wings because a few of my buddies ride them and rate them highly, but stiffness is not necessarily the only holy grail. I dont believe we have been winging long enough to know what works best. Small and powerful is one way to go and probably best for surf oriented wings where handling is at a premium, but I'm betting that as wing racing takes off we will see wings designed to twist off so that riders can hold a big wing upwind to crank it up downwind. It will split in a few directions. There are some very experienced designers with great teams to feedback making wings (and then some real backyard efforts). You cant tell me that the good ones havent tried larger stiffer tubes. It seems that most of the big players have decided not to go super stiff right to the tips with their gen2 wings. Must be a reason. Time will tell.
Not sure but I don't think twist in a wing is as important as twist in a windsurfing sail, which is attached to the board through the mast. Power in a wing can be more directly and effectively controlled by de-powering it overhead, much like a kite. Maybe kites (racing kites) have built in twist -- I don't know since I have never owned any kiting equipment. If they do, then maybe the same rational for twist in a kite would apply to a wing.
I think twist is very important in both windsurf sails and wingsurf wings.. Without it you either get full power or a flapping.. Twist gives control without having to shut the power off or having to fight it.
My Unit 6m is 6psi...seems very stiff eg compared to naish 5.3 I tried
Don't you want stiffness in the largest of sizes eg 6 or 7m to have more grunt in light winds? Esp for less experienced riders who will be less effective at pumping
I need and have very rigid solid windwings. It is critical for me to have instant solid power so my 74yo legs can get me from kneeling to standing.
Select to expand quotenorthy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?
BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?
BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body
Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?
Select to expand quoteLeighMajor said..warwickl said..northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?
BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body
Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?
BT has a couple and the bridals scare me.
My Clouds work well for me.
Plus I Windwing 90% of the time atm.
Did you see my new Moses W1000 front wing?
It has almost the lift of a wing twice its area.
Yesterday was my fist session and too much lift at my 75kg to consistently control kitefoiling but Windwing incredible.
I guess we should get back on the topic
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..
I think twist is very important in both windsurf sails and wingsurf wings.. Without it you either get full power or a flapping.. Twist gives control without having to shut the power off or having to fight it.
Here's Kai Lenny going for speed using both a Wasp and a rigid framed wing (pretty much zero twist). The "speed" wing is rigid with no twist so this seems to be one approach to speed with a wing. His fastest speed was with the rigid framed wing.
Twist makes a windsurfer sail more controllable in higher winds by spilling wind. Slalom heads could use massive sails in strong wind so go faster. Does not relate to us atm.
Select to expand quoteDavidJohn said..
I think twist is very important in both windsurf sails and wingsurf wings.. Without it you either get full power or a flapping.. Twist gives control without having to shut the power off or having to fight it.
Yes I remember when we all thought stiff sails with a leech chord was the way to go, then along came the loose leech with progressive twist. What a difference this made in terms of control and power. We could now use smaller sails to attain the same outcome but also use bigger sails in a broader wind range.
i don't know for sure because I'm not a designer or even own a wing thingy but I'm guessing some twist would be beneficial. I must say it does look like there is a certain amount of twist built in to these things.
love to get my hands on one to try.
A vertical wing (sail) is different from a horizontal wing (hang glider).
In hang gliding it's called washout of the trailing edge. This is very bad for performance.
I'm betting wing dings follow the hang glider design path.
My new BRM W1 wings are much stiffer than my F-one Swings. Less washout I guess. So far I really like the stiffness!
Select to expand quoteDWF said..
A vertical wing (sail) is different from a horizontal wing (hang glider).
In hang gliding it's called washout of the trailing edge. This is very bad for performance.
I'm betting wing dings follow the hang glider design path.
I do not understand.
In a hang glider washout (or twist) is bad for performance but good for your life expectancy.
Unlike windsurf sails the twist is forced and will be maintained at negative angles of attack by the sprogs.
This is fundamental for the pitch stability of the Delta (tail-less wing).
Many people have died by lowering the sprog angle (decreasing twist) to be faster...at serious HG comps this angles are checked before flying by the organizers.
Hang gliders are similar in shape but their needs are very different from a wingything.
hang gliders have adjustable washout. Tension the crossbar for least amount of washout and maximum performance.
Yes, they have a strut to prevent a death drive.
Look back to the early years of hang gliders. The BIG advancement in design that changed everything forever, was the massive reduction in washout from the tensioned crossbar invented by UP gliders and first used on the Comet. The game changer for glider design that still holds true today.
If you're not as old as me, you would not have any idea. Around 1982. I was there when it changed the world and flew one.
Are we going to start a hang gliding thread boys ? We can go on forever about performance improvements in those, double surface vs single surface , king post vs topless, variable vg, undersurface batterns, 6061, 7075, carbon fibre tips etc etc , but very little of it will apply to these drag bags we are hanging onto atm for foiling.....
Select to expand quotewarwickl said..LeighMajor said..warwickl said..northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?
BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body
Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?
BT has a couple and the bridals scare me.
My Clouds work well for me.
Plus I Windwing 90% of the time atm.
Did you see my new Moses W1000 front wing?
It has almost the lift of a wing twice its area.
Yesterday was my fist session and too much lift at my 75kg to consistently control kitefoiling but Windwing incredible.
I guess we should get back on the topic
What length of Moses fuselage for the W1000 (I was under the impression that these race foils only worked with the really long fuselages)? You are obviously using an adaptor to connect the Moses fuselage to a Slingshot mast. Can you please let us know the upside and downside of using such a high aspect wing for wing foiling -- why not the Moses 1100 medium aspect large wing? What size of stabilizer are you using?
Thanks for any info.
Select to expand quotekobo said..
Are we going to start a hang gliding thread boys ? We can go on forever about performance improvements in those, double surface vs single surface , king post vs topless, variable vg, undersurface batterns, 6061, 7075, carbon fibre tips etc etc , but very little of it will apply to these drag bags we are hanging onto atm for foiling.....
you missed the whole point I was making. Will wing ding take the next advancement from sails, big twist, or hang gliders, less washout.
I was there at the beginning of all 3 sports. I experienced the game changing single item that changed all these sports. I'm predicting washout reduction for wing ding.
I've already seen a massive washout reduction in a Duotone mini boom prototype.
Nah I didn't miss the point , just wasn't in the mood for a history lesson about hang gliders after spending the past 40 years involved with flying, competing , instructing , designing and the developing of the sport ! only to be taken over by paragliders haha.
Select to expand quotedejavu said..warwickl said..LeighMajor said..warwickl said..northy1 said..
what wings do you use Warwick?
BRM Clouds, 3, 4 and 5 for my 75kg body
Hey Warwick,
Have you tried the Peak 4 yet?
Did BT get his yet?
BT has a couple and the bridals scare me.
My Clouds work well for me.
Plus I Windwing 90% of the time atm.
Did you see my new Moses W1000 front wing?
It has almost the lift of a wing twice its area.
Yesterday was my fist session and too much lift at my 75kg to consistently control kitefoiling but Windwing incredible.
I guess we should get back on the topic
What length of Moses fuselage for the W1000 (I was under the impression that these race foils only worked with the really long fuselages)? You are obviously using an adaptor to connect the Moses fuselage to a Slingshot mast. Can you please let us know the upside and downside of using such a high aspect wing for wing foiling -- why not the Moses 1100 medium aspect large wing? What size of stabilizer are you using?
Thanks for any info.
Off topic but my reply.
I am using the kite fuselage, 647mm lg with 420 stab which is perfect for Windwing.
Next session I'll try the 483 stabiliser as I think it would work better for kite foiling.
I have the 1100 which is an excellent wing but not as fast as the W1000 but speed is not that critical for Windwing.
For my 75kg both wings are excellent.
After a few more sessions I'll post more in a new topic on the new Wind Wing page.
Select to expand quoteFoiled said..
Anyone try one of these yet? I'm torn between getting another Naish or one of these Armstrong 4.5m. Decisions decisions.....
Hi there - I just traded my Naish 5.3 for a A-Wing 5.5. NO COMPARISON. The a-wing is much more powerful, and handles over-powered much better. IMHO the A-wing is expensive, but much better.
Select to expand quoteHubDekkers said..
I have been riding the 4.5 in 12-14 knots of wind. Small video:
That loks impressive for a 4.5m.
What size foil wing in that video?
Select to expand quoteHubDekkers said..
I have been riding the 4.5 in 12-14 knots of wind. Small video:
Can you give us a review of how the wing performs? Looks really good.
Of course I can. :)
I compare it to the Wasps I have. I have had tons on sessions on those.
The Awing is much stiffer and much more direct than the wasp. When pumping you feel all the energy is translated into forward motion instead of the wing absorbing it. This means that the wing is much more powerful. This allows me to, either use a size smaller, or use a small board. I have been learning to wingfoil with a 33 liter board. The more tucked in wingtips help with deep water starts as they are less likely to catch while you are deep in the water.
Over the weekend I have been comparing it to others on the water. I was on the 4.5 Awing. Other on a 6m wasp, 5.4 sling, 5.3 naish and 5 duotone. Of course skills matter here as well. Not saying the others were not good or that I am brilliant (joke), but I was able to get up on foil same as the 6/5.4 and much much earlier compared to the 5.3/5. So safe to say low-end if pretty good.
I also enjoy the lack of flutter. It is more silent compared to the wasp. I also like the handles. They are stiffer compared to the wasp. They take a bit of getting used to as the positioning is slightly different. I am not a window hater. They are in the wing but I hardly use/notice them. Actually only riding switch I'm able to look through them (due to the position of the wing). Beyond that I have been moving the wing up to look around as I have been doing with the wasps. Maybe I'll use them more in the future. One thing to bear in mind when inflating is that the valves are positioned properly and are solid in the wing. They attach with velcro so if they are not in the right place, the bladder might come out. I haven't yet do a weight compare, so do not know which one is heavier/lighter.
To summarize, I consider it to really be in another league compared to the v1 wasp, but I am sure the v2 wasp will be a significant step forward as well.
Select to expand quoteHubDekkers said..
Of course I can. :)
I compare it to the Wasps I have. I have had tons on sessions on those.
The Awing is much stiffer and much more direct than the wasp. When pumping you feel all the energy is translated into forward motion instead of the wing absorbing it. This means that the wing is much more powerful. This allows me to, either use a size smaller, or use a small board. I have been learning to wingfoil with a 33 liter board. The more tucked in wingtips help with deep water starts as they are less likely to catch while you are deep in the water.
Over the weekend I have been comparing it to others on the water. I was on the 4.5 Awing. Other on a 6m wasp, 5.4 sling, 5.3 naish and 5 duotone. Of course skills matter here as well. Not saying the others were not good or that I am brilliant (joke), but I was able to get up on foil same as the 6/5.4 and much much earlier compared to the 5.3/5. So safe to say low-end if pretty good.
I also enjoy the lack of flutter. It is more silent compared to the wasp. I also like the handles. They are stiffer compared to the wasp. They take a bit of getting used to as the positioning is slightly different. I am not a window hater. They are in the wing but I hardly use/notice them. Actually only riding switch I'm able to look through them (due to the position of the wing). Beyond that I have been moving the wing up to look around as I have been doing with the wasps. Maybe I'll use them more in the future. One thing to bear in mind when inflating is that the valves are positioned properly and are solid in the wing. They attach with velcro so if they are not in the right place, the bladder might come out. I haven't yet do a weight compare, so do not know which one is heavier/lighter.
To summarize, I consider it to really be in another league compared to the v1 wasp, but I am sure the v2 wasp will be a significant step forward as well.
Nice review, video and feedback. They look like great wing dings. Would you mind sharing your weight and based on the 4.5 what do you think the minimum wind would be for the 3.5 wing?
Select to expand quoteHubDekkers said..
Of course I can. :)
I compare it to the Wasps I have. I have had tons on sessions on those.
The Awing is much stiffer and much more direct than the wasp. When pumping you feel all the energy is translated into forward motion instead of the wing absorbing it. This means that the wing is much more powerful. This allows me to, either use a size smaller, or use a small board. I have been learning to wingfoil with a 33 liter board. The more tucked in wingtips help with deep water starts as they are less likely to catch while you are deep in the water.
Over the weekend I have been comparing it to others on the water. I was on the 4.5 Awing. Other on a 6m wasp, 5.4 sling, 5.3 naish and 5 duotone. Of course skills matter here as well. Not saying the others were not good or that I am brilliant (joke), but I was able to get up on foil same as the 6/5.4 and much much earlier compared to the 5.3/5. So safe to say low-end if pretty good.
I also enjoy the lack of flutter. It is more silent compared to the wasp. I also like the handles. They are stiffer compared to the wasp. They take a bit of getting used to as the positioning is slightly different. I am not a window hater. They are in the wing but I hardly use/notice them. Actually only riding switch I'm able to look through them (due to the position of the wing). Beyond that I have been moving the wing up to look around as I have been doing with the wasps. Maybe I'll use them more in the future. One thing to bear in mind when inflating is that the valves are positioned properly and are solid in the wing. They attach with velcro so if they are not in the right place, the bladder might come out. I haven't yet do a weight compare, so do not know which one is heavier/lighter.
To summarize, I consider it to really be in another league compared to the v1 wasp, but I am sure the v2 wasp will be a significant step forward as well.
Thanks for the detailed information. Just to be clear, are you saying you find low end of the AWing 4.5 comparable to the Wasp 6? Do you have any conflicts of interest to disclose? Thanks again.
