Cross posting, sry. 2nd day riding this thing. And this time with a smaller foil and board, and with the new BRM settings which I found were even easier, or perhaps it felt that way because the learning progress is so high in the beginning and every next time feels easier? With a 70 litres KT Super K (I'm 72 kg) and 850 cm2 foil, BRM 2.9. The upwind angles are great now. Terribly gusty and lots of leaves in the water, there was pretty much always something around the mast or front wing. But other than that the riding gets more and more enjoyable. In super strong gusts it's a survival mode (I edited these out) but I'd like to think in pleasant steady winds (which we never have) it would be amazing. Well, lots to learn still. Tried to tack once, but did not make it yet.
I tried the new bridle set up last session. SO much better in every way! Every session has had too much wind for the 4m, so mostly it's been survival sailing, but 4 sessions in I'm getting lots of DW stoke and real potential. Upwind ability is now similar to a wing which is awesome. It's a pretty physical ride overpowered!
Can those who have been successfully riding post their parawing size, the board volume (and your weight), your front foil area and your mast height? From what I can see on various videos, in winds where a similar sized inflated wing would be used, it looks like larger volume mid-lengths and downwind boards, and larger than what you would wing with front foils are the items that are working to get through the learning curve.
Select to expand quoteBBQdSunfish said..
Can those who have been successfully riding post their parawing size, the board volume (and your weight), your front foil area and your mast height? From what I can see on various videos, in winds where a similar sized inflated wing would be used, it looks like larger volume mid-lengths and downwind boards, and larger than what you would wing with front foils are the items that are working to get through the learning curve.
Have had 2 sessions only, with a BRM 2.9. The first time I though it's a good idea to try with a bigger board and bigger foil, but actually the big foil made it more difficult than it should have been.
First session. 72 kg, 95 L Dragonfly, 1227 cm2 fast foil, ca 13 AR, way too powerful for me in these water conditions.
Ozzie company producing a prototype parawing. Flow Paragliders do good stuff so interesting to see how it turns out.
www.facebook.com/share/p/qGknYtFt16f52uSL/
Some really fun relaxing conditions the other day. My wings are collecting dust.
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Fun session on the AFS Ultra 750/HA38 starting with the 4m and switching to the 2.8m BRM Parawing. Riding my Silks is way easier but it's a fun challenge riding a more technical foil like this.
Fun conditions on Lake Ontario with 20-30 kts on the KT Super K 5'9" 60L, AFS Silk 850/142 and BRM Parawing 2.9m
Details on gongs offer: www.gong-galaxy.com/en/blogs/magazine/gear-lowkites-innovation-and-evolution-of-wings-for-much-more-than-just-downwind
Select to expand quoteFrankieboy said..
Obviously he sees a market for no downwind parawings.
Strange
Ya, I don't get it either. Just seems confusing to me.
If the pulse and dro?d would be great for freeriding / racing, I mean equal performance and comfort, they could replace wings
Select to expand quoteFrankieboy said..
If the pulse and dro?d would be great for freeriding / racing, I mean equal performance and comfort, they could replace wings
At that point might as well just use a real kite no?
I have basically only used my BRM parawing since I purchased. For me I can use upwind just as well as a wing. Why I love it is I can put it away easy and surf downwind freely emulating the prone foil feelings and lines. That to me is the magic of the parawing but outside of that a wing is much better and more fun to ride.
Select to expand quoteFrankieboy said..
Obviously he sees a market for no downwind parawings.
Strange
From the press release, it sounds like the Neutra is Gong's Lowkite version of the Parawing. I may be wrong.
Also don't get it. If you want to kite foil, why not just get a regular kite. Like a peak, a proven product. Ok this is easier to relaunch maybe. I'm not sure what Gong are thinking.
But yeah the Neutra appears to be their parawing equivalent. They claim it only points slightly upwind. So I'd stick with the BRM for now which really does point upwind at a very good angle with the bridle adjustment, very close to a regular wing.
Many are taking it for granted that there will shortly be a slew of products to compete with BRM at a fraction of the price. It may not be as easy as people think to get it right.
Select to expand quoteStephenZ said..
Also don't get it. If you want to kite foil, why not just get a regular kite. Like a peak, a proven product. Ok this is easier to relaunch maybe. I'm not sure what Gong are thinking.
But yeah the Neutra appears to be their parawing equivalent. They claim it only points slightly upwind. So I'd stick with the BRM for now which really does point upwind at a very good angle with the bridle adjustment, very close to a regular wing.
Many are taking it for granted that there will shortly be a slew of products to compete with BRM at a fraction of the price. It may not be as easy as people think to get it right.
That is why I am still riding my BRM Clouds sinds 6 years... many tried to copy it but never succeeded.
Also think about the first BRM wing, from the start only 2 rigid handles, no one pump etc. Others came to it years after.
The guy is a visionary.
Two if the Gong lowkites are built to be stowed, just the Pulse isn't.
Honestly if it allows for similar performance to a wing but gets out of your sight (especially big sizes) then I'm game. I have no interest in kiting.
I felt the same however now actually think that's he's trying to create a hybrid sport. And judging by the way the parawing has created its' own zeitgeist & his passionate followers that I have seen on the Gong FB pages I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
I felt the same however now actually think that's he's trying to create a hybrid sport. And judging by the way the parawing has created its' own zeitgeist & his passionate followers that I have seen on the Gong FB pages I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.
If you compare Gong and BRM they could hardly be more different in how they operate, with the exception that they both sell direct. Greg for sure you know he will only take something to market when he's 100% stoked with it for his own exacting requirements. And keeps things small and nimble.
Gong on impressive in a different way. Their pricing is compelling and their product range is staggering. They are a major operation. Their have been some quality concerns in the past but they evolve and iterate so fast. Their gear now is pretty top notch, yet still very affordable, you don't win world champs on inferior gear. As they are producing so much stuff and so many product lines it's nothing for them to throw some spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks.
I appreciate Gongs push for innovation here and if they can sell all these models of parawing then all power to them.
I do however feel like a non stowable parawing is really missing the point though. Kite foiling with ram air kites on really short/no lines has been tried many years ago and I think most felt that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages when compared to normal kite foiling. Also ram air and single skin foil kites have been around longer than inflatable kites. They are not a new thing and making them fly well is not a new science. What is new is the concept of packing them away mid ride, free foiling as desired then redeploying them. That's what is new and exciting and refining that process is where all the efforts should be going. From what I can see here it seems like they haven't made alot of effort on the pack down side of things. They haven't even got a bag/belt to stash it in.
Anyway it's important to remember it's still early days and I am stoked to see where all this is going.
Select to expand quoteMicrosurfer said..
I felt the same however now actually think that's he's trying to create a hybrid sport. And judging by the way the parawing has created its' own zeitgeist & his passionate followers that I have seen on the Gong FB pages I wouldn't put it past him to succeed.
I think the same, Gong for sure know their customer base and customer locations and I would bet that a lot of them are mainland Europe, lake riding, etc. I suspect they don't just want to cater to folks that are looking for the stowaway, surf/dw capability and are probably taking a punt on it with this release to capture that market. There will likely be an initial release of stock and then it will be on preorder for months - seems to be the way they operate now, smart as they know what they need to build and can drop something quick if its not popular.
Price point will be key, if its reasonable folks are gonna purchase to try it out. Be interesting to see....
You've got to laugh when every new development of wind/water sports gear is met with "That's dumb. Who would want to do that? Why don't they use xxxx same as we always have?". It's even funnier when it's coming from the last new kid to appear.
Designers and developers do it because they can. They're into it. They have the skills and knowledge and some resources.
Companies produce the product because they think they can sell them and make enough profit to keep the business viable.
What is interesting is that from my 40+ years involvement in surfing, paragliding, windsurfing, kitesurfing, foiling etc, all these new things have been done before in one form or another by a number of designers. They make some progress, put it on the back burner, and focus on the core products that are actually making money.
Then, one person takes the development a few steps forward and bam a new class emerges and away we go again.
Also interesting is how trends proliferate throughout the industry. Then one designer moves something by 50mm and we have a revolution and everything changes again.
Select to expand quoteGorgo said..
You've got to laugh when every new development of wind/water sports gear is met with "That's dumb. Who would want to do that? Why don't they use xxxx same as we always have?". It's even funnier when it's coming from the last new kid to appear.
Designers and developers do it because they can. They're into it. They have the skills and knowledge and some resources.
Companies produce the product because they think they can sell them and make enough profit to keep the business viable.
What is interesting is that from my 40+ years involvement in surfing, paragliding, windsurfing, kitesurfing, foiling etc, all these new things have been done before in one form or another by a number of designers. They make some progress, put it on the back burner, and focus on the core products that are actually making money.
Then, one person takes the development a few steps forward and bam a new class emerges and away we go again.
Also interesting is how trends proliferate throughout the industry. Then one designer moves something by 50mm and we have a revolution and everything changes again.
Yes I feel and agree with the sentiment of your comment. As i said previously I commend gong for their efforts in innovation and if they are able to sell these new parawings then good on them. Baring that in mind I'm really trying not to be a hater but I feel like short line/ no line kite foiling/ non stow able parawinging takes the worst aspects of kite foiling and wing foiling and combines them. You can't sine and loop the kite like you can with long lines so you miss out on the power, speed and low end of kite foiling. You can't fully flag the wing like you do with wingfoiling so you would still be restricted in how you can ride by the necessity to not overrun your kite and drop it. Which is the main disadvantage of kite foiling. I have commented on Gongs FB group asking if they can better explain the advantages of this new discipline and if anyone can explain why it's worthwhile I would be happy to listen.
meanwhile stowable pararwings have got me super excited. Let's hope brands work on making them easy safe and foolproof.
Select to expand quoteYoungbreezy said..Gorgo said..
You've got to laugh when every new development of wind/water sports gear is met with "That's dumb. Who would want to do that? Why don't they use xxxx same as we always have?". It's even funnier when it's coming from the last new kid to appear.
Designers and developers do it because they can. They're into it. They have the skills and knowledge and some resources.
Companies produce the product because they think they can sell them and make enough profit to keep the business viable.
What is interesting is that from my 40+ years involvement in surfing, paragliding, windsurfing, kitesurfing, foiling etc, all these new things have been done before in one form or another by a number of designers. They make some progress, put it on the back burner, and focus on the core products that are actually making money.
Then, one person takes the development a few steps forward and bam a new class emerges and away we go again.
Also interesting is how trends proliferate throughout the industry. Then one designer moves something by 50mm and we have a revolution and everything changes again.
Yes I feel and agree with the sentiment of your comment. As i said previously I commend gong for their efforts in innovation and if they are able to sell these new parawings then good on them. Baring that in mind I'm really trying not to be a hater but I feel like short line/ no line kite foiling/ non stow able parawinging takes the worst aspects of kite foiling and wing foiling and combines them. You can't sine and loop the kite like you can with long lines so you miss out on the power, speed and low end of kite foiling. You can't fully flag the wing like you do with wingfoiling so you would still be restricted in how you can ride by the necessity to not overrun your kite and drop it. Which is the main disadvantage of kite foiling. I have commented on Gongs FB group asking if they can better explain the advantages of this new discipline and if anyone can explain why it's worthwhile I would be happy to listen.
meanwhile stowable pararwings have got me super excited. Let's hope brands work on making them easy safe and foolproof.
I'm with you on this. Make the whole experience easier and more comfortable. Better low end and easy stow and redeploy. End of the day I just want to surf foil unobstructed.
For me, and I expect most people, the conditions that allow down winding by wave power alone are relatively rare. That is the simple fact that has inspired the rise of windsurfing, kitesurfing, and now foiling. If everywhere had good waves then we'd all be surfing. I can't see the great majority of people packing down their tiny little hand wing and then pumping their way 20km down the coast.
We can speculate all day about what you can and can't do with a parawing. I think we have to wait and see what emerges.
There's a few physical issues that suggest themselves:
- wing boards are relatively floaty and the foils are quite large and able to be pumped. That reduces the amount of pure power required and eliminates the need to water start. Balancing on a stationary board can be quite difficult so you need to be able to get some power while kneeling.
- parawings don't need kite lines or pumps so you can launch and land pretty much anywhere you can get access to. Small or crowded beaches are less of an issue. You don't have to leave gear behind on the beach or walk stuff back to your car.
- ram air structures are inherently low pressure so you eliminate the need for all the complicated and increasingly expensive fabrics and construction we're getting in hand wings.
It might be more accurate to rephrase that as a wish list, but there's a chance that something might come of all this. There's already parawing things associated with BRM, Gong, North, Flow, Ensis, Born and converted Flysurfers.
So I lost my 2.9m today. Basically packed it away into the pouch and put 1 strap on. Surfed hard for a few minutes to shore into some medium Lake Ontario shore break. Not sure when it fell out but haven't found it yet. Just wanted to remind you to stow the parawing properly and put the bar into its holder and strap it done properly. Save you some frustration. Funny thing is I ended up taking my 3m wing out to go do some laps looking for it and was so not into using a wing again. Really felt like a downgrade I was not expecting to feel that way.
Oh man that's a serious bummer. Good news is you were ripping so hard you did not notice it fall off your belt! Really cool to hear your already preferring the parawing over the wing. Do you still see a place for both in your quiver?
Could be worse, a local rider just lost his gen 2 FD when he hit something while riding.
