So I've been thinking about the benefits. Now I love Earth, it's a really pretty little planet and I've got no where else to go.
I understand there are some megalomaniacs out there that have no talent but to tell people what they can and can't do.
I also understand CO2 isn't a very powerful greenhouse gas, with almost 0 effect on temperature.
So what are the Pro's and Con's of CO2 emissions tax?
Pro's
1.- Environment? Well any taxation reduces the citizens prosperity, so it stands to reason that this will reduce consumption. Any reduction in consumption will be beneficial to our planet because of our mostly parasitic relationship.
Also since it will affect our prosperity it should also:
2.- Decrease traffic and smog.
3.- Reduce net immigration cos of the lower standard of living to work ratio (Australia is already on average is the most expensive place to live in the world at our current exchange rate).
So 3 Pro's.
Con's:
1.- Increase crime + underground economy.
2.- Increase unemployment (all general taxes do this, as they constrain GDP growth).
3.- Reduce population health... less money to buy good food, medicines, etc.
So what y'all reckon? List your pro's and con's.
.
Julia gillard says 'there is more carbon dioxide now then 1 million years ago'
But...
Five hundred million years ago carbon dioxide was 20 times more prevalent than today, decreasing to 4–5 times during the Jurassic period and then slowly declining with a particularly swift reduction occurring 49 million years ago (wikipedia excerpt)
I guess the world has its own way of balancing things out.
I know what a litre of milk looks like, I know what 2 litres of orange juice is....I know what 9KG of BBQ gas looks like but how much is a Ton of CO2?
And if we are going to be charged for it, how do we know we are not being over charged?
Would you trust your local servo to charge you for what ever they think you have put in the tank?
This is just about the ultimate tax, charge whatever you want, to who ever you want, on something you never see and never having to prove a thing..... Wow this carbon tax thingy is going to be a cake walk for the scammers......
No -one will pay carbon tax when they buy the milk because the tax is levied agsinst the big corporates not consumers. GST is levied on consumers and is the biggest burden on the economy. The corporates are against the carbon tax because they know compteitive pressure will see some of it come out of their margins.
On my power and gas bill there is an estimation of how much CO2 they claim I have used so how do I know that is correct?
And do you REALLY think that big companies will absorb any costs and the resulting lower profits .... you must be dreamin !!!!!!
So are companies that create CO2 going to be taxed on what they produce .... like carbonated drinks, brewing wine and beer, baking bread etc. or just on what they consume in the way of energy?
It's quite surprising so many people support a tax that will make life much more financially difficult for so many Australians. Electricity is a major cost for many businesses and this tax will increase their costs.
So basically this tax is a big FU to Australian business, especially small business.
If carbon dioxide was such poison the government would prohibit the export of coal.
Currently we are paying beween $60 - $100.00**** per ton on our hap -hazard carbon reduction policies - so pegging it lower should be a bonus - or am I missing something here???[}:)][}:)]
**** Source Ross Garnaut - Climate review 2011
Love hearing the Kookies having a larf in the morning!!!
It's just a Mug's Game.
It's just started, the TAX race is on.. Talking to an engineering company this morning when getting some steel. And the notice on the office door....
"When the CARBON TAX is introduced there will be a price increase for our engineering services to cover the additional costs of Electricity and Welding Gases as many contain CO2..... Sorry but blame Julia"
They have been wanting to increase prices for a while and this way Julia gets the flack not them....
Just watching the tax announcement... and in 6 minutes I shouted BINGO !!!!! ....
Gee the Spin Doctors have done a great job, lots of words with not much substance.
Carbon Tax is next human invention off the activities that are completely unrelated to actual progress. It consumes enormous amount of energy by itself and divert activity from that rally matter for our human race survival on this planet. Statistically usually 70% of the of money raised is consumed and wasted in first place by bureaucratic process in first place , next twenty spent on misplaced/miss-concept processes/ investments, maybe five on corruption and last five going to the target.
If any tax is needed at all I will call for one universal: LUXORY TAX
Proportional and applied at all activities not directly related to sustain basic existence and development or science.
ie driving your car to the work is tax free, driving around to do donuts and noise is taxed.
The main point is not that the Carbon emission is good or wrong. The most of the carbon emission is completely unnecessary and avoidable.
So LUXORY TAX is applied progressively to all redundant activities.
Some may call this communism I would prefer to name it programmed scientific development in opposition to jungle war - called market forces society.
I have been thinking about this today. Here is my theory:
Australia has an aging population. The cost of welfare an reduction of tax revenue from retiring workers is adding to the costs, combined with pressure to return the budget to surplus it is necessary to increase taxes to make ends meet.
Income tax increases would be very unpopulular.
Any government in power would have 2 options, increase GST or introduce a new tax. Increasing GST would also be unpopular as everyone would pay.
BUT what about if you create a way to increase tax revenue in the disguise of a more popular topic. The environment. Younger people identify with this cause and by creating some unsubstantiated hysteria on climate change people are likely to support a tax that supposedly protects them.
When the independents asked the Libs at the last election to show the books there was a gaping hole. This would have been filled by a tax increase, most likely an increase to GST as the right would never impose tax on business.
So, we needed a tax increase. I for one would appreciate some honesty in why we needed it rather than media spin and manufactured hysteria...
I like your logic. Sounds like you are on the money or there is more than one way to skin a cat.
Where are the pro's and con's????
Look CO2 tax is gona cost VERY one ~ 2% with a price of $20 a ton.
Personally I think it amounts to treason for any government to do this. They're elected to do what's best for our nation and represent our national view.
If you're favour of this, turn off your damn computer, walk everywhere, live in a tent and STFU!
I already do everything I can do to keep by bills down, I don't rev the car, and I turn my lights off.
If you tax me more, I'm still not going to be able to cut down.
This applies to businesses too. If you tax them more and they can't recover the cost from YOU, then they go under or DON'T invest in new GREENER technology.
So Pro's? Anyone???
Doesn't appear to have done the Swedes much harm. They've had a tax on Carbon for 20 years and it's set at $150 per tonne
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_tax
www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/apr/29/climatechange.carbonemissions
Question is
If carbon tax is setup high and is 100% retrievable,
Do you think that governments will be interested in :
a) reducing profit feeding into their budgets every year by stimulating green energy transition and efficiency , to under cut their future profits??
b) will multiply red tape for wind and solar power, electric cars, any green transition to balloon and prosper from newly invented taxation
???
I'd support this tax if the proceeds actually went to developing cleaner power. Otherwise what's the point?
A point that a lot of people seem to be missing is...
This system is revenue-neutral.
The tide has turned PW. Gillard now has a positive statesman like message to sell that could make Abbotts position very wedged. Those opinion polls are a bit rich though, one lot I saw were saying 50% of greens voters were unhappy with Gillard. But we all know on election day they will all go Labor or Green. I reckon the backroom boys at Liberal HQ will be starting to thjink of plan B
It is easy ( relatively) to introduce a new tax.
It will be extremely difficult to remove one ( suppose that is global cooling in few years time) and carbon tax is not needed.
Instead of removing Carbon Tax they will introduce next one for Warming this time, and we will be paying both at this same time.
