Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..airsail said..
Commentators are saying NSW has lost control of the current outbreak, Victoria cases a low but rising. NSW is trying one last stab at reducing case numbers with full lockdown.
What if it fails, I really hope not but it could happen. Whether your pro or unvaxed you have to agree vaccination slows hospital admissions, we just don't have that many beds.
I'd be interested to know what plans the unvaxed have to protect themselves should case numbers explode. Masks and hand washing only goes so far. Or maybe Covid just doesn't exist for some.
My plan is to eat well and hope for the best.
It's the same plan I had when this whole shmozzle started.
Fortunately, I see it's worked for most, some of them weren't even eating particularly well and still didn't suffer.
Should I mention that you also moved to a state that is isolating itself from the rest of Aus and currently has no cases of Covid?
No. You shouldn't. That sort of remark belongs only in heavy weather.
Well, you are implying that good healthy eating is going to protect you, and I am reminding you that moving from Vic to WA means that you are far less likely to get exposed and test your theory. Had you moved from WA to Vic or NSW it would look different.
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..
'Yeah, how unreasonable! I should be able to not nominate anyone specifically and just travel where I want to and use that as an excuse to be 50kms from home. Yeah! I have rights!'
....Derr, it's pretty easy to see why they have introduced this. As if the government gives a sh1t who you are seeing? They are flat out coordinating a vaccine rollout which seems pretty easy.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..FormulaNova said..
With NSW in lockdown, all of it, does anyone think we should have had dedicated quarantine facilities ages ago to prevent this crap?
I have lost track, but has the federal government committed to anything on this front?
Yes, we should concentrate all of them in a camp...
As you haven't said otherwise, I will take your comment as not sarcastic... So you must agree with me then. Good.
Why wouldn't you concentrate them all in a camp. Where you can control infection far better than in converted hotels? Where they can all not pass Covid to each other and when it is done, they are free to be released into the wild.
Surely its a better approach than hoping that no one catches it from a hotel not designed to control airborne viruses?
If everyone coming in from overseas came into a more remote airport and the air staff were housed in dedicated facilities, we wouldn't be in this mess in NSW. Letting them stay in Sydney and be transported is just asking for someone to catch it from them.
Select to expand quoteKamikuza said..lotofwind said.
No, not at all, I tend to live in the future and have never had an interest in history.
So please explain why the gov. want to stop us from working, paying taxes, stop local and international travel ?
Why is this a planned conspiracy to control us from doing those things?
What have they now gained?
Have been through a couple of short lockdowns now and everything went back to normal soon as they stopped and everyone carried on as life was before, except for overseas travel.
Yes, it shows.
Read some history. Unless you want to pay me for my time to tutor you...?
Didn't say that, not my argument.
Read some history. Start with the first half of the 20th century.
You're ok, so you don't care about anyone else. Got it.
PLEASE read some history -- that boot you're licking is only an inch from your neck.
Without a doubt it has happened here as well:
deliberatedumbingdown.com/ddd/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/DDDoA.pdf
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
As you haven't said otherwise, I will take your comment as not sarcastic... So you must agree with me then. Good.
Why wouldn't you concentrate them all in a camp. Where you can control infection far better than in converted hotels? Where they can all not pass Covid to each other and when it is done, they are free to be released into the wild.
Surely its a better approach than hoping that no one catches it from a hotel not designed to control airborne viruses?
If everyone coming in from overseas came into a more remote airport and the air staff were housed in dedicated facilities, we wouldn't be in this mess in NSW. Letting them stay in Sydney and be transported is just asking for someone to catch it from them.
Sarcastic because it's a bull**** idea and the optics are appalling.
Who's going to run the camps? The government, who'll balls it up, drive up costs and line their pockets in the process? MIQ in NZ is costing the government $4 million a day (according to recent RNZ program) and that's including the ex-pats paying for the privilege.
Of course you can't trust the stupid peons to self-quarantine, they're so pathetic they desperately need the government to hold their hands and tell them what is best for them. (Meanwhile in Japan, you get a test at the airport, then take yourself off to self-quarantine, which you can do at your own home.)
You'd have to transfer from an international flight to a domestic to get to the remote airports that aren't designed for big aircraft. More people exposed in that process, if that's what you're actually worried about.
We know how to deal with this: wash your hands, wear a mask if you can't social distance, get vaccinated if you're able and your government actually has the stock.
Remember the Nightingale hospitals the UK purpose-built to handle all the COVID patients? They got a couple of months of light use then were closed. Great boondoggle though, I bet some people made bank on it.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Kamikuza said..FormulaNova said..
With NSW in lockdown, all of it, does anyone think we should have had dedicated quarantine facilities ages ago to prevent this crap?
I have lost track, but has the federal government committed to anything on this front?
Yes, we should concentrate all of them in a camp...
As you haven't said otherwise, I will take your comment as not sarcastic... So you must agree with me then. Good.
Why wouldn't you concentrate them all in a camp. Where you can control infection far better than in converted hotels? Where they can all not pass Covid to each other and when it is done, they are free to be released into the wild.
Surely its a better approach than hoping that no one catches it from a hotel not designed to control airborne viruses?
If everyone coming in from overseas came into a more remote airport and the air staff were housed in dedicated facilities, we wouldn't be in this mess in NSW. Letting them stay in Sydney and be transported is just asking for someone to catch it from them.
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..
Well, you are implying that good healthy eating is going to protect you, and I am reminding you that moving from Vic to WA means that you are far less likely to get exposed and test your theory. Had you moved from WA to Vic or NSW it would look different.
Nope.
I'm asserting that I'm comfortable with my individual risk ratio and I choose to improve my chances significantly by living healthy.
And I'll remind you that I didn't move to avoid Covid, I'd drink a Covid smoothie to end this political lockdown debacle
Select to expand quotejapie said..
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Ha ha herd immunity, that's so dumb. People will get sick, how dare you? /s
Select to expand quotejapie said..
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
It needs to be said that Sweden is for all intents and purposes fully vaccinated
Select to expand quoteD3 said..Gboots said..micksmith said..cammd said..FormulaNova said..
Personally, I would be happy if he kept up the isolation for another year.
This is the wrong way to look at things,
It may suit you to now to maintain isolation for another year but the problem is principle that is getting violated, its like the free speech argument, I would rarely agree with Bono or Logman or even yourself and it may suit me to suppress your opinions but I would always argue for your right to disagree and express your opinion that no matter how opposed to the idea I was.
Its the principle that is wrong, passports to cross borders in your own country, that should ring alarm bells and I am not hearing any opposition from either of the major parties. Not good.
Absolutely agree, it appears people are willing to sacrifice their rights of freedom for which our parents and grandparents fought for, what is life about if it's not for freedom and the right to move freely within at the least our own country. This all started years ago with legislation on the likes of no jab no play, no jab no pay ( government assistance)
Our government was elected democratically but now is behaving like a regime with too much power.
Fully agree. The vaccine is a sideshow and a diversion . The real concern for me is the right choose and not to be intimidated and blackmailed via loss of job etc . The next proposal is a bigger concern "the covid passport". That will cause segregation and not be able to be policed so they will bring in another solution that people will accept
out of convenience . We are selling out on our freedom. The vaccine rollout will not stop lockdowns or other restrictions .
So what is your solution?
If you are worried take vaccine.
If you don't think vaccine is warranted don't take.
Open society . No segregation. No "passports"
The vaccinated will be protected .
The unvaccinated will bear risk.
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..D3 said..
In the US, once a person says they are vaccinated they do not get tested for covid.
That way you get the above results.
That's hilarious mate. Then the number should be zero, not 13
Select to expand quoteGboots said..D3 said..Gboots said..micksmith said..cammd said..FormulaNova said..
Personally, I would be happy if he kept up the isolation for another year.
This is the wrong way to look at things,
It may suit you to now to maintain isolation for another year but the problem is principle that is getting violated, its like the free speech argument, I would rarely agree with Bono or Logman or even yourself and it may suit me to suppress your opinions but I would always argue for your right to disagree and express your opinion that no matter how opposed to the idea I was.
Its the principle that is wrong, passports to cross borders in your own country, that should ring alarm bells and I am not hearing any opposition from either of the major parties. Not good.
Absolutely agree, it appears people are willing to sacrifice their rights of freedom for which our parents and grandparents fought for, what is life about if it's not for freedom and the right to move freely within at the least our own country. This all started years ago with legislation on the likes of no jab no play, no jab no pay ( government assistance)
Our government was elected democratically but now is behaving like a regime with too much power.
Fully agree. The vaccine is a sideshow and a diversion . The real concern for me is the right choose and not to be intimidated and blackmailed via loss of job etc . The next proposal is a bigger concern "the covid passport". That will cause segregation and not be able to be policed so they will bring in another solution that people will accept
out of convenience . We are selling out on our freedom. The vaccine rollout will not stop lockdowns or other restrictions .
So what is your solution?
If you are worried take vaccine.
If you don't think vaccine is warranted don't take.
Open society . No segregation. No "passports"
The vaccinated will be protected .
The unvaccinated will bear risk.
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
So. You want the majority of the population to protect you? But you don't want to do anything to protect the most vulnerable of the population?
Select to expand quoteD3 said..Gboots said..D3 said..Gboots said..micksmith said..cammd said..FormulaNova said..
Personally, I would be happy if he kept up the isolation for another year.
This is the wrong way to look at things,
It may suit you to now to maintain isolation for another year but the problem is principle that is getting violated, its like the free speech argument, I would rarely agree with Bono or Logman or even yourself and it may suit me to suppress your opinions but I would always argue for your right to disagree and express your opinion that no matter how opposed to the idea I was.
Its the principle that is wrong, passports to cross borders in your own country, that should ring alarm bells and I am not hearing any opposition from either of the major parties. Not good.
Absolutely agree, it appears people are willing to sacrifice their rights of freedom for which our parents and grandparents fought for, what is life about if it's not for freedom and the right to move freely within at the least our own country. This all started years ago with legislation on the likes of no jab no play, no jab no pay ( government assistance)
Our government was elected democratically but now is behaving like a regime with too much power.
Fully agree. The vaccine is a sideshow and a diversion . The real concern for me is the right choose and not to be intimidated and blackmailed via loss of job etc . The next proposal is a bigger concern "the covid passport". That will cause segregation and not be able to be policed so they will bring in another solution that people will accept
out of convenience . We are selling out on our freedom. The vaccine rollout will not stop lockdowns or other restrictions .
So what is your solution?
If you are worried take vaccine.
If you don't think vaccine is warranted don't take.
Open society . No segregation. No "passports"
The vaccinated will be protected .
The unvaccinated will bear risk.
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
So. You want the majority of the population to protect you? But you don't want to do anything to protect the most vulnerable of the population?
It's the opposite.
Actually the vaccinated will not
protect me. They will endanger me as they will not be showing symptoms and may still carry and transmit the virus . Fact
The vulnerable , if scared , will take vaccine. The vaccine will protect them.
By the way I may take the vaccine .
Never said I wouldn't . When i'm ready and one of my choice . Possibly Novavax.
My choice . My freedom. My risk .
No segregated society
Select to expand quoteD3 said..TonyAbbott said..D3 said..
In the US, once a person says they are vaccinated they do not get tested for covid.
That way you get the above results.
That's hilarious mate. Then the number should be zero, not 13
A few slip through and get tested despite the efforts.
If lockdowns worked, why did we have to keep doing them?
If they didn't work, why did we keep doing them?
Oh, that's right. We're following The Science
Select to expand quotejapie said..
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Okay, you said it, lets follow the Swedish approach.
In that very article you linked to, there is a comment that then drags you to this one, where it says at least 79% of adults have had at least one vaccination shot. (the comment also points out that its important to provide all the relevant info...)
www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedens-covid-czar-blames-nigh-clubs-travel-abroad-rising-cases-2021-08-06/
Let's do it!
If you want to sit on your arse and not get vaccinated, then highlighting the Swedish approach is not a match.
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..
Well, you are implying that good healthy eating is going to protect you, and I am reminding you that moving from Vic to WA means that you are far less likely to get exposed and test your theory. Had you moved from WA to Vic or NSW it would look different.
Nope.
I'm asserting that I'm comfortable with my individual risk ratio and I choose to improve my chances significantly by living healthy.
And I'll remind you that I didn't move to avoid Covid, I'd drink a Covid smoothie to end this political lockdown debacle
Yeah okay, you are comfortable with your individual risk. You may be right. You may be wrong. I don't like to gamble with my life with those odds, but clearly you have a different risk profile.
Select to expand quoteTonyAbbott said..
If lockdowns worked, why did we have to keep doing them?
If they didn't work, why did we keep doing them?
Oh, that's right. We're following The Science
What are you talking about. They did work. It was only started again by new infections from people coming into the country. If you remove those people from the equation there would be no Covid here.
I think early on last year most people worked out that lockdowns were only a stop-gap until enough people got vaccinated. If not enough people get vaccinated and 'want to protect their individual rights', who is to protect the rights of the rest?
Select to expand quoteGboots said..
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
I doubt this too. Even if they don't want to take a vaccine, they wouldn't be stupid.
Who here would sign away their rights for medical care that they are entitled to? Crazy talk.
You get worried about a vaccination passport. Imagine the uproar if you even suggested that the unvaccinated gave up their right to medical treatment.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..japie said..
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Okay, you said it, lets follow the Swedish approach.
In that very article you linked to, there is a comment that then drags you to this one, where it says at least 79% of adults have had at least one vaccination shot. (the comment also points out that its important to provide all the relevant info...)
www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedens-covid-czar-blames-nigh-clubs-travel-abroad-rising-cases-2021-08-06/
Let's do it!
If you want to sit on your arse and not get vaccinated, then highlighting the Swedish approach is not a match.
Did they vaccinate at the outset, that is when everyone else was locking down?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Gboots said..
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
I doubt this too. Even if they don't want to take a vaccine, they wouldn't be stupid.
Who here would sign away their rights for medical care that they are entitled to? Crazy talk.
You get worried about a vaccination passport. Imagine the uproar if you even suggested that the unvaccinated gave up their right to medical treatment.
After reading some of the comments on another forum....
One nurse, who's since deleted his comments, saying words to the effect of, I had to take my chance on the shot now you have to and if you don't then don't come to me with your broken leg or diabetes, just **** off.
Got me thinking, do I really want treatment from this sort of character. Gotta accept treatment from someone, it's all well and good to believe I'll survive Covid but there's a million other lethal ailments out there and were it not for medical intervention it's quite possible that my whole family would be gone by now.
Select to expand quotejapie said..FormulaNova said..japie said..
Why wouldn't you just take the Swedish approach?
Soooooooo simple. Protect the vulnerable and let it run its course.
thevaccinereaction.org/2021/08/daily-covid-deaths-in-sweden-hit-zero-as-other-nations-brace-for-more-lockdowns/
Okay, you said it, lets follow the Swedish approach.
In that very article you linked to, there is a comment that then drags you to this one, where it says at least 79% of adults have had at least one vaccination shot. (the comment also points out that its important to provide all the relevant info...)
www.reuters.com/world/europe/swedens-covid-czar-blames-nigh-clubs-travel-abroad-rising-cases-2021-08-06/
Let's do it!
If you want to sit on your arse and not get vaccinated, then highlighting the Swedish approach is not a match.
Did they vaccinate at the outset, that is when everyone else was locking down?
No, I don't think they did. Weren't they notable for being open early and not doing much?
The point is, that you cannot now compare them to countries like ours. They have a high level of vaccination.
It is interesting that their infections are increasing and they are blaming it on travelers from elsewhere. I guess this suggests that locally they have enough herd immunity to keep infection rates low or zero, yet people coming in from outside don't.
On reflection, does this mean that Sweden is a glowing example of getting the majority vaccinated? Probably contrary to what you initially thought.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..
Well, you are implying that good healthy eating is going to protect you, and I am reminding you that moving from Vic to WA means that you are far less likely to get exposed and test your theory. Had you moved from WA to Vic or NSW it would look different.
Nope.
I'm asserting that I'm comfortable with my individual risk ratio and I choose to improve my chances significantly by living healthy.
And I'll remind you that I didn't move to avoid Covid, I'd drink a Covid smoothie to end this political lockdown debacle
Yeah okay, you are comfortable with your individual risk. You may be right. You may be wrong. I don't like to gamble with my life with those odds, but clearly you have a different risk profile.
But you are willing to gamble your life, by accepting an injection with unknown long-term side effects.
Why is that?
Select to expand quotepsychojoe said..
After reading some of the comments on another forum....
One nurse, who's since deleted his comments, saying words to the effect of, I had to take my chance on the shot now you have to and if you don't then don't come to me with your broken leg or diabetes, just **** off.
Got me thinking, do I really want treatment from this sort of character. Gotta accept treatment from someone, it's all well and good to believe I'll survive Covid but there's a million other lethal ailments out there and were it not for medical intervention it's quite possible that my whole family would be gone by now.
I guess nurses are human and some of them are probably getting angry when they think the prevention is there but they see all of the people that die. I would find it hard to do that job but it would get to me if you see otherwise normal people die when they might have been okay otherwise.
No one should advocate removing medical care for the unvaccinated. No one in their right mind would sign this sort of agreement and even if they did the lawyers would have a field day if any of them caught Covid and weren't treated because of this.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Gboots said..
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
I doubt this too. Even if they don't want to take a vaccine, they wouldn't be stupid.
Who here would sign away their rights for medical care that they are entitled to? Crazy talk.
You get worried about a vaccination passport. Imagine the uproar if you even suggested that the unvaccinated gave up their right to medical treatment.
Only for Covid illness .
ABC News website :
url link :
www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-16/boy-15-years-old-dies-with-covid-19-osama-subuh/100379396
....but the headline :
Boy, 15, dies in Sydney hospital after contracting pneumococcal meningitis and COVID-19
....but the article :
A 15-year-old Sydney boy who was being treated for pneumococcal meningitis as well as COVID-19 has died. .....Sydney's Children Hospital said that while he was a confirmed COVID-19 case, it was not the cause of his death.
and then Radio News 30 seconds ago :
...NSW Covid cases continue to climb with 478 new cases reported today and seven deaths, including a 15 year old boy who died of Covid-19 in Sydney Children's Hospital.
I'd previously understood the death statistics were reported as any death within 28 days of a positive Covid test, that could not be attributed solely to other factors, such a trauma (e.g. road accident). But I see the ABS and Health dept. actually say the stats include deaths with both confirmed Covid infection and presumed Covid infections that cannot be solely attributed to other factors, such as trauma (e.g. road accident).
Still, who cares eh?.
Whole thing makes gripping daily news. The media haven't had it so good since Trump stopped tweeting. The pollies in power get daily media briefings that has the whole electorate watching and the opposition can't criticize for fear of being demonized. Win-win for all those who matter.
Select to expand quoteGboots said..FormulaNova said..Gboots said..
Even make it a need for unvaccinated to sign away rights to medical for covid sickness. Most will sign
I doubt this too. Even if they don't want to take a vaccine, they wouldn't be stupid.
Who here would sign away their rights for medical care that they are entitled to? Crazy talk.
You get worried about a vaccination passport. Imagine the uproar if you even suggested that the unvaccinated gave up their right to medical treatment.
Only for Covid illness .
That's how I read it, I guess some just read things the way they want to see it. Anything to justify their false sense of securities
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..psychojoe said..FormulaNova said..
Well, you are implying that good healthy eating is going to protect you, and I am reminding you that moving from Vic to WA means that you are far less likely to get exposed and test your theory. Had you moved from WA to Vic or NSW it would look different.
Nope.
I'm asserting that I'm comfortable with my individual risk ratio and I choose to improve my chances significantly by living healthy.
And I'll remind you that I didn't move to avoid Covid, I'd drink a Covid smoothie to end this political lockdown debacle
Yeah okay, you are comfortable with your individual risk. You may be right. You may be wrong. I don't like to gamble with my life with those odds, but clearly you have a different risk profile.
But you are willing to gamble your life, by accepting an injection with unknown long-term side effects.
Why is that?
Yeah, I was pretty certain that you would avoid that question completely.
Makes you pretty uncomfortable to realise that you've gambled your health on an unknown.
Anyone else here willing to say why they are/were willing to take the gamble on having an injection of a novel therapy, not having any idea in the slightest what the effects on their long-term health could be?
Edit: this is actually an honest question. I genuinely would like to know peoples' reasons/justifications/rationalisations.
I don't understand how you could be comfortable gambling on their an unknown.
I don't want to get covid, but neither do I want to be a guinea pig.
