Show Pony Alert @ Brighton WA

you have to keep talking to the offenders if you don't then say goodbye to your spot!!
If they don't get the message its time for the air rifle or a discreet razor blade sharp shell or stick to the leading edge, or if you know what car they drive maybe a nice sharp nail under the tire,perhaps a warning note on the windscreen first but probably not as they have already been spoken too.

Not enough time to kite yesterdee so took the camera for a quick blast at flozzer and Brighton.

Heaps of kites, STRONG winds but flagged area up at brighton and a fair few swimmers (in flagged area) for conditions.

Was dumbfounded to see some kiters going through (and staying) in the small flagged area!?

Worst offender was a large (for conditions - 11/12m?) Black n Blue Liquid Force.

WTF!? This idiot stayed static right in the flagged area for 20mins plus I was viewing! Not cruising through but actually riding in and out - not stop - in the flagged area to within 10-15m of swimmers.

Gawd awmighty some peeps are lacking any redeeming quilties to qualify for oxygen!!

Good to see the 95% of kites doing absolutely the right thing but the LF d!ckhead soured that a bit. No doubt for the clubbies right there taking notes also.

Nothing sensationalistic about seeing a kn tool like the LF guy. I know a terd when i see one.

"... every time except once I've always had a thanks and I didn't know ..." (Dave)

Look I'll confess I've barked back once to someone who tried to help. I'll explain why just to make a point about the importance of 'approach'.

In this case I'll accept 60% responsibility.

The case study details are not overly important: larger 12m kite; new starter; self launch; strongish wind; public beach; did it a few days before ok; made a mistake due to forgetting something; damaged equipment; and sore body. And very angry for a few hours.

I was about to launch and it was very touch and go -- it was probably going to hurt. But I'm a large build and I'd done it before very carefully. Just then, at the point of lift, a young lady dressed as an instructor walking by with her student walked/ran up behind me and yelled out over my shoulder that I had "the bar around the wrong way" (or words to that effect). I turned my head and this split my attention and caused some confusion for a moment.

In the 2-3 nano-seconds I looked down at the bar and it was the right way round (red to the left) and I said "I know what I'm doing" (or words to that effect, meaning what the "f..." are you talking about?) and in the process turned back to the kite and continued with the delicate balancing act, and bingo, before I had time to think, up it went. I was a little off balance due to the intervention (both mentally and physically) and was lifted up and dumped on a small sand lump about 10m away: 110kg, 12m and 20+knot wind resulted in one broken string, very sore ribs (not broken thank goodness) and a red face. I was angry! And she had walked on as if nothing had happened.

Now, her intentions were 100% good, I have no doubt of that. I have no hard feelings, although at the time, after packing up and limping back to the car, I was very dark in my thoughts. I drove to the school she was working from and vented mightily explaining the risk they were taking. I purchased a new string at a healthy discount.

These are the points I made at the time:

1. I was a member of the public on a public beach and not in any way contracted to, or contracting (at that time), the school or their staff.

2. Someone who was under their contract/employment intervened in my recreational activities and (in my mind) contributed (if not caused) a potentially serious accident and damage to my equipment. [Of, course we'll never know whether the kite launch would have been ok had I been left to my own resources, timing and sensory intuitions.]

3. If we were in a more litigious society, or I was an American tourist, then perhaps the incident may have developed a more serious legal tone.

Yes, there are serious risks in harnessing powerful forces like wind with kites. There are also potentially serious risks and powerful legal forces if you intervene uninvited in a personal matter in a public space.

Now, to keep it short: let me conclude with my deconstruction of this event which may suggest why I consider it a 60:40 split of responsibility -- and a learning experience.

1. I needed someone to help launch the kite. I was not self launching for any other reasons than (a) I was a bit shy; and (b) there were no others nearby willing to offer their assistance without my walking up to them (and I was already harnessed and connected etc).

2. I did not have the bar around the wrong way. I had the kite around the wrong way! I was not to the side enough ... in fact almost standing directly in front of it upwind. That was the mistake. I was in a difficult launch space chosen poorly with small sand hills making walking round difficult -- although the aerodynamics of the place did offer some down wind calmer space (where the kite was sort of). But I confess I was somewhat forgetful at that point of what the lessons had said.

3. The young lady focused on the negative 'mistake' and made her own mistake -- or at least did not communicate well with/to me in that critical moment: either in message content, or in tone. (from my perspective)

4. I reacted poorly and should have shown a bit more humility and wisdom and asked for clarification. But, in my defence, yelling that someone's shoe lace is undone as they stand on the ledge about to fall is not good procedure.

In hind sight, she would have been more helpful if she had had called out "Can I help you launch?" -- and then assessed the situation (myself/wind/kite) and engaged in explaining a better way to do it. I can 100% guarantee that I would have waited and thanked her sincerely for her help and advice.

We can all learn a lot I think. I did in any case. I still do not know her name, but I'm sure (well 99%) a few days later she came by and very nicely offered to help launch my kite for me.

It was a nice resolution to my 'lesson' imo. No doubt I'm down in the books as one of those 'idiots' -- but I'll wear that. But nor is she in court facing a huge hike in her (and the schools) public liability insurance -- and possibly government departments looking into the matter for more regulations etc.

People, please be careful how you approach members of the public -- even ones learning how to kiteboard!

It is not a question of needing more rules (enough of the nanny state already!) -- what is needed are protocols, style, technique and just plain old common respect and courtesy.

My suggestion would be to set up some small funds to do some short You Tube videos on these classic scenarios. Use humour. This 'Show Pony' example is a classic scenario that done properly would get the message across, go viral and bring the house down. Ever seen the John Cleese workplace training videos? (*) Same idea. Archetypal exaggerated idiot works through the situation. Don't tell -- show.

Given that about 8/10 people I meet on the beach kiteboarding are Swiss or German or Brits tourists out here for their winter (and loving it) then surely there is a business case to approach the WA Government (e.g Tourism) for funds to do these using local instructor talent hamming it up?

Hope this helps.

(*) not the ones I'm thinking of (circa. 1980s), but the closest I could find to show the principle.

Hmmm. Few folks here saying a 20 knot rule, at heavily used metro beaches is ridiculous, but -with little substance in their statements- I suspect it's really more the personal distaste of the idea that shts them.

Well it's also ridiculous that most of Mullaloo beach is closed to us AT ALL TIMES now. That could have been avoided if we had been willing to share and leave the beach to families and other beach users on low wind days. Instead of heading out in little wind, riding scarily through swimmers, walking with kites over children, having kites fall, cutting a women the with lines and THEN *insisting*, we could somehow talk sense to 'the offenders' (some are apparently prominent kiters), or -hey -maybe break some jaws, or just whine like babies...

At the moment the evidence is that talking about it here makes it worse! Went down to Brighton for a sunset swim on this balmy, below 15knot afternoon and there was not just one showpony but at least 6!!! Beach packed with swimmers. These guys riding through, losing ground, doing the walk of shame up the beach.

Before you ask, no I did not talk them. Futile, like trying to hold back the rising tide. Fck it, run/chase after 6 or more strutting alpha male jocks? Yech dudes like that are so uncool I'd feel like retching. Why would I spoil my evening swim?

We need well though out rules. Signs. Fines. (Even the lifeguard argument requires this...else the lifeguard is a toothless tiger)

Reckon I'm grumpy? You bet!!! Apart from a youbeaut sesh yesterday it looks like another hot & windless week ahead.....grrrrrr

20 Knot rule - are people suggesting that unless your riding a 6, you shouldnt be kiting? Now that sounds a bit silly to me.

I think some of the people on here over exaggerate everything, including the wind strength they kite in.

New years eve was over 20kts, is that the average strength it is suggested we wait for?

Before letting this issue die, as it should, I just want to add that one of my main underlying messages included that fact that people who are being employed and paid a salary/commission etc through a company are under various legal Acts including company law and occupational health and safety regulations.

In a public place, that risk is to the company employing the 'trainer' and therefore they need to be very careful that their staff are trained to work in a public place such as a beach area. That was my bottom-line message at the time -- as it is now reporting it here as a case study.

Public recreation by individuals is one thing: running a business is another. That was my more subtle point.

From what I'm reading here and hearing by anecdotal evidence, I'd say there is about 18-24 months before various local authorities come down hard on this recreational activity. I'd suggest oversight associations etc need to prepare draft guidelines etc before they are imposed from above without due consultation.

Hi Bo,

I dont think we will ever agree on the size of the conflict problem.

But I do agree that when the beach is full of people kiters should move to a less populated area.

I dont see I was exaggerating about only riding a 6. At Brighton the sand starts to move at 18kts, once the sand is moving, that says put up your 6 to me.

Again we wont agree on what to do about when it isnt very windy and heavily populated on the beach, but why cant a Life saver mention to the guy that it is a busy day and it would be apprecieated if he moved up toward the dog beach.
I think that would be received better than by jo public having a go at them.

Before you start, I will also agree that if it is hot and busy common sense says go somewhere else.

Mabee if a shower was installed at the new carpark at Dog Beach (path 16 not Peasholm st) and a U-turn slip lane added so you dont need to go all the way to Floreat to come back it could be the new 'go to' spot to kite over summer.

[Of, course we'll never know whether the kite launch would have been ok had I been left to my own resources, timing and sensory intuitions.]

Not being smart or anything mate but,pretty sure you would have feckted it up anyway an no amount of excuses or blaming it on others will change that

Tip..practice your launching an landing before your in a "situation"
You need to be 100 % confident of this before doing it in a sketchy location or somebody will get hurt, guaranteed !!

rsc I think you need to reconsider both your actions and what you are saying on this forum.

You were 100% at fault - don't try and blame the instructor. I self launch regularly and I can tell you if i think there is a 1% chance it will not launch correctly, I move to a spot where I know it will launch OK.

I never get distracted or "accidentally launch" the kite. If I am carrying out a self launch I focus on the task 100%.

Don't blame others for your incompetence, instead assess the launch site and if there is any doubt, either move to a more suitable site or ask for a launch.

And to stay on the original topic of this post, if I saw you launching in an area of manner that I thought was risky, I would come up and point out the risk and then ask if I could help you to launch.

By helping to eliminate potential hazards to other beach users, be they swimmers, sunbakers or other kiters it is of benefit to us all.

Well we have the 100% club here I think. I differ in my philosophy. It is difficult to dialogue and reconcile with absolutism. Still no actual legal judgments to backup your assertions?

1. "And to stay on the original topic of this post, if I saw you launching in an area of manner that I thought was risky, I would come up and point out the risk and then ask if I could help you to launch. " -- I have no issue with this approach. It is what I would expect and do myself -- with care.

2. And yes, something constructive at last. I will consider joining WAKSA for the public liability if nothing else.

As to making friends: well, you'll need to a mature person in the older demographic; have some life experience for general discussions outside this narrow topic; into 15-20knot winds and smooth cruising with a large kite; and generally down the beach 2-3 hours before the circus turns up for the irritating side show performances around the busy general beach going public. If you can fit that criteria then sure come on down and help lauch me. I'll send you the address!

I'm not bitter, nor in it for friends. I have a life. I'm getting fit and taking some time for simple R&R in the elements for health reasons. It is horses for courses. I think you make too many assumptions.

In my opinion, if this activity is going to be brought under stricter control (and I'm slowly forming the impression it needs to be) then it will be due to the antics of the acrobatic club interring with public life on our common beaches (i.e. as per the original topic story).

It is the relationship between the culture of the 'high performance' tricks dept and the need for an audience that is interesting here. Do it all you like, pay full unsubsidized medical costs for reconstructions, and find somewhere away from areas used by people (i.e. the local rate payers or their visitors to their local swimming/fishing beaches).

My comments/story is a side issue to draw out opinions on a topic I am researching. I am not unsatisfied with the response. It confirms my early insights into the connections between tone, attitude, fanatics, fundamentalism and risk.

I'll end with a quote from a recent email to me on another topic entirely (re: Thomas Friedman and Richard Dawkins): "Both men are fanatics, though in slightly different ways. But that does not at all negate everything each one says or writes. With fanatics, we make a mistake if we 'throw the baby out with the bath water'."

The principle applies here as well imo. Have a good day.