and as religion has already been brung into this.... remember..
“For of those to whom much is given, much is required”
Bible (Luke 12:48)
As far as I can tell nobody is asking the important question.
Does the majority of people living here actually want to expand the population through immigration?
My vote is no to immigration organised or not. Black white blue or yellow.
Its not about where they come from or how they arrive but do we have the facilities infrastructure, jobs, affordable housing and environmental set up (water, energy & agricultural land) to handle a doubling of the population in 25 years.
We are not organised enoughe to keep the standard of living we have for ourselves if we let the population grow out of control.
This is the biggest problem the world will face in the future.
Why make it harder for ourselves and our children???
Are we not all either missing the point or just evading it?
Austalia, and all other first world countries, encourage immigration because it FUELS THE ECONOMY.
The way our economy is structured it has to GROW.
If it stops GROWING it goes into RECESSION.
So the easy answer is to import CONSUMERS that we cannot BREED ourselves.
Until we wake up to this fact, in all likelihood never, the population will continue to expand at a frightening rate, until such time as it becomes unmanageable and unsustainable.
Fortunately I will not be around when it reaches this stage.
Incidentally I’m currently editing a "book of quotes"
this is a notice stating that some comments in this thread
will be used with in this "book”, thank you for your contributions.
ANDREW TILLETT CANBERRA, The West Australian
April 6, 2010, 10:26 am
The Federal Government's asylum seeker problems are continuing with another boat stopped near Ashmore Reef.
It is the third boat to be stopped this month and follows a record number of arrivals in March and will place more pressure on the Christmas Island detention centre.
HMAS Childers stopped the boat last night, near West Island at Ashmore Reef, Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor said in a statement.
He said initial indications suggested 22 passengers and one crew member were on board.
"The Australian Government remains committed to protecting the Australian border from maritime threats, including people smuggling," Mr O'Connor said.
"People smuggling is a global and regional problem and the Australian Government continues to work closely with our regional neighbours to address this issue."
The group will be taken to Christmas Island, despite the detention camps being overcrowded.
Since Kevin Rudd came to power in late 2007, 104 boat carrying asylum seekers have been intercepted.
During March, 16 boats were stopped, breaking the record set under then prime minister John Howard in November 1999, when 14 vessels carrying asylum seekers reached Australian waters.
Personally I'd prefer to have a neutral immigration rate, if one person emigrates from Australia then one person can migrate to Australia.
I just read in the paper today the federal government changed the rules relating to foreigners buying houses in Australia. They no longer require approval from the foreign investment review board. As a result foreign investors are pushing the price of real estate up.
To me this has more of an impact on Australians and their standard of living than a few thousand people turning up on leaky boats.
From what I've read there is little restriction on foreigners owning Australian houses. I discussed this with a colleague today who is from India. He believes this rule will allow criminal gangs from India to launder their money by purchasing houses in Australia. Their dirty money will become clean here and they will display all the trappings of respectability.
If the rules do not allow an individual to own more than one house then this rule will be dodged by them using their proxies to purchase houses in their names.
Indonesia pushes asylum seekers for deal
April 7, 2010, 5:09 pm
About 200 asylum seekers aboard a boat moored in the Indonesian port of Merak for six months after trying to reach Australia have been given five days to come ashore or face deportation.
The Sri Lankans had previously refused to come ashore until they were offered a special deal similar to the 78 asylum seekers who were picked up last year by an Australian Customs vessel, the Oceanic Viking.
Officials of the Indonesian navy, foreign ministry and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) arrived at the boat unexpectedly on Wednesday.
Namil, a spokesman for the refugees, said UNHCR staff took photos of every person on the boat and asked for personal details.
One of the group's chief demands is for the commission to confirm their refugee status before they leave the boat.
This is very unlikely to be met.
"We have asked them for five days to wait in the boat," Namil told AAP on Wednesday.
While he was focused on the group's immediate concerns, Namil was keen to emphasise their goal - life in Australia.
"Australian government must help us for resettlement," he said.
The boat was headed for Australia late last year when Prime Minister Kevin Rudd intervened.
Learning the boat was on the way, Mr Rudd phoned Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono and asked him to stop it in Indonesian waters.
The Indonesian navy apprehended the boat and took it to the Javan port of Merak on October 11.
But the Sri Lankan asylum seekers - then numbering 254, including 31 children - refused to get off the boat, fearing they'd have to wait years for resettlement if their refugee claims were processed in Indonesia.
Mr Rudd intervened after a similar standoff with 78 asylum seekers who were taken aboard the Oceanic Viking earlier in 2009.
The Australian boat picked up the ethnic Tamils in international waters inside Indonesia's search and rescue zone in October and took them to the Indonesian island of Bintan.
But the group refused to leave the Australian vessel and enter Bintan's detention centre, sparking a four-week standoff.
The Rudd government finally enticed them ashore with the promise of rapid processing and resettlement in a third country.
Indonesia promised the group in the Merak standoff it would not force them off the boat, but its patience appears to have come to an end.
Refugee advocate Ian Rintoul called the actions of the Indonesians inflammatory.
"They are trying to intimidate them," Mr Rintoul said.
Indonesian immigration official Harry Purwanto was keen to claim an agreement had been reached.
"Yes, the negotiation reached (a) deal," Mr Purwanto told AAP from Merak Port.
But his claim was rejected by Mr Rintoul.
"No agreement has been reached," he said.
This was confirmed by Namil.
Immigration Minister Chris Evans and opposition immigration spokesman Scott Morrison have been contacted for comment.
From the Daily Reckoning:
-Hi
Why all the concern about the Chinese buying up units and houses?
You frequently write how money spent on Mc Mansions is dead capital but if we start selling to overseas customers, house building becomes an export (productive) industry!
Of course we not only sell the house but also the block of land on which it sits, so to some extent this export industry involves a bit of "selling the farm" too unfortunately. But, hey, we need to import capital and selling land may not be a bad way of doing it. Unlike selling coal or iron ore the sold goods cannot be taken out of the country and we do not lose dividends as we might do if we sell parts of our businesses to foreigners. Of course we may lose capital appreciation but isn't it better that foreigners buy from us believing property prices will increase for ever than us believing it ourselves?
It sticks in our claw [sic] because it is pricing our young out of the property market. If we believe in free (international) markets we just have to wear this. If we are not prepared to wear it we must wear the alternative of government intervention (first home buyer's grants, restrictions on imported capital etc).
Kind Regards,
Ian H.
--Dear Dan
I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the DR and its sister (paid) publications. Good work. My family and I moved to Perth from Canada in 2002 to take up an employment opportunity.
We fell in love with the climate, the people and the lifestyle but we could never make sense of how people made ends meet with the cost of living being so high, especially the cost of property.
Having owned our house in Canada outright, it was (emotionally) difficult for us to take on a large mortgage for what appeared to us to be a pretty average property.
As we all know, property went up from there and for nearly 8 years we have rented. When the GFC hit, we decided to start looking at buying a property as we expected the prices to relax, even if only just a little. We soon realised that the government was working against us, and for good reason: the whole 'miracle' economy is dependent on ever increasing property prices.
To make a long story short, we have decided to 'vote with our feet' and move back to Canada. We have already purchased a property there which is far from average and will own it outright at far less than we would have paid here for a basic 4x2.
We love Australia and may even return one day but it seems that, at least for now, the property "crisis" has changed the course of our journey and has cost Australia an Oil & Gas Engineer/Project Manager, a Maths Teacher and three bright young kids with heaps of potential.
To have it attributed to a 'land shortage' is an assault on any form of intelligence, but anyone who subscribes to such rubbish will recognise that we have helped alleviate the shortfall in available properties by one!
Cheers,
Steve
I remember it was mooted many many years ago that land should not be held in freehold title. As you probably know freehold title is not an unconditional right of ownership. It used to be the Crown but now it is Australia that retains ownership of all Australian land and permits the use of this land under freehold title. This is a legal device that allows resumptions etc. Anyway it seems to be within the power of government to disallow the rights of freehold title if they so choose. It was mooted that land should only be held for finite time spans like lease hold. That way there is a natural depreciation working against all the natural appreciative pressures and makes land a less desirable commodity for speculative investment. The idea is that this would keep the price of land low and accessible.
I don't know if it would work. I'm not sure that it's even politically possible but the notion appeals to my socialist leanings. I should add that I know zip about economics 
New refugee boat intercepted off north coast of Western Australia
April 07, 2010 10:44PM
ANOTHER boatload of asylum seekers was intercepted tonight, putting further pressure on the Christmas Island detention facility.
The latest boat - the 37th to arrive this year - was picked up by authorities off the north coast of Western Australia.
It was carrying 99 passengers and four crew.
Home Affairs Minister Brendan O'Connor said the group would be transferred to Christmas Island for processing.
More than 200 asylum seekers have been sent to Christmas Island since Good Friday.
Can't we make room for the desperate (and as prev mentioned) legitimate refugees by exporting ignorant, selfish boguns?
Sounds like an excellent trade to me. Free jet skis for legitimate refugees.
Boats = very small part of the problem
Arrivals via expensive air transit that appear to be ethnically similar to the majority of Ozzies = big problem (not that anyone would know given zero media/political coverage)
Creating a legal grey zone at Christmas Island - as the prev cronies did and the current cronies maintain - to remove a political hot spud (and certain international legal requirement that didn't earn votes) created a temporary solution to make it to the next election. Stunning how the foresight is never beyond 4 yrs. 
The proximity of this brainstorming island processing plant is no doubt enticing to the scum that profit from people smuggling, so maintaining CI is dumb. Don't expect bogun Ozzy's to understand that in a pink fit tho. Chances of either party suggesting closing CI and returning to mainland processing - ZERO. Despite the FACT that nearly all boat arrivals ARE genuine refugees and granted according status.
Politics is a dumb game played by those smarter than those holding the dice (votes).
Wise up - we have plenty of room.
We are far better off as a nation for international influences, compared to the brat hanging off Great Brittain's hooter in the 50's and then the US until the 90's.
When are we gonna get over the desire for every Ozzy to be white and 'just like us'?
We are greedy, selfish and frankly pathetic to complain about a small number of arrivals, especially when our own political parties heed to what the clowns desires, but end up providing a honey trap for people smugglers.
Backbone is in standing up for what is just and right, lending a hand to those that NEED it and having compassion for those that have life so sh!t that jet ski toting fools could not begin to imagine. Backbone is not bending to the ignorant, greedy and selfish.
My neighbour stunned me several years ago when he 100% backed Howard's heavy duty posturing on 'illegal' refugees arriving via boat and false exclamations of refugee invasion.
My neighbour is 80+ so I get that he like to play conservative and would think a sprightly lad like Howard had his finger on the pulse.
He stunned me because he and his wife were German and Lithuanian refugees from WWII. WTF?! Good thing Howard wasn't around then ey mate?
He worked hard. Paid taxes. Collects full pension. Eats odd foods, smells like sourkraut and speaks dodgy broken English 60 yrs later. Apparently that is not acceptable.
Sorry doggie - was simplifying cause me rant was overlong awready.
We have excellent public health, oodles of space (despite the fact that we spread 1/4 acre blocks everywhere - unlike most of the world) and enjoy a pretty affluent lifestyle that can fairly easily accomodate genuine refugees. We bounced back better economically than most and have been sitting pretty economically for 20 yrs now.
Wanna save money on refugees? Close CI. Process them thouroughly but effeciently (as has begun happening in recent years) and stop spending mega $$ trying to convince the public we can build a rabbit refugee proof fence.
1952…. An English immigrant [ female ] arrives Australia
She fairly quickly is married to her skipper friend….that’s now 2 people
By 1960…..They have seven children, 4 boys and 3 girls….now its….. 9 people
By 1980….. There are seven partners, husbands and wives……………. 16people
By 1990….. A total of around 57 grand children are produced………… 51people
2006…… There are now 14 great grand children and more to come…65people
In just over 50 years “1” has grown to 65
The Other Boat People 2010
Around 106 boats have arrived average people 70 each craft……7,420 people
Mostly men and boys, few women, so lets say………………………..7,000 people
Maybe a percentage [ 1,000 ] wont be allowed to stay……………6,000 people
So after being accepted/granted and working for two years
They bring out their Spouses and young children X 2…..thats….24,000 people
+ the 6,000 already here……………………………………………………30,000 people
They then bring out fifty percent of grandparents………………….42,000people
They continue producing offspring, big family people…30,000..72,000 people
6,000 originals X 7 kids apiece that’s 42,000 people+72,000 = 118,000
That’s by about 2030 and by that time great grandkids are coming on stream
Lets say 70,000 breed at 5 per head……350,000 by 2050 out of 106 boats.
The World cannot accept this growth, Australia has no chance of survival.
The growth industries have to be in the line of sterilization for some to survive, or at least so the earth may continue. It will be truly the survival of the best off.
The “serfs/workers” will be an endangered species. Mankind as we know it
cannot survive under such strain, it’s just down the track away’s
Another so called civilization hits the wall…….into oblivion.
Interesting estimations j murray....
I was under the impression that Australia's rate of children per women of child bearing age was just less than enough to sustain our current population. Ie 2.1 children.
That's partially why immigration has been an important political consideration (ethics and 'boat people' aside)
@GD start reading other news. You seem a bit caught up on this one issue. There is a lot happening out there other than a handful of desperate people looking for help and coming up against fear and ignorance when understanding and acceptance is what is required.
@ everyone else. This was about 'boat people' and Christmas Island and what GD might call Australia's 'soft' stance (that's not how I see it by the way)..... Immigration is really quite different to asylum seeking.
Fair to say that any issue is best dealt with through firstly understanding the points of view of all involved. GD.. No more boats might sound like a solution until you consider what it would be like to be on one of the boats yourself and what you may have been through to be in that situation. Rest assured I would want to know your story before making any decisions.
