I'm in NY. However, out of curiosity I watched the Ozz TV yesterday to see what's going on and things I heard sounded like dejavu. You guys know things better since you are there but.. It was like watching local TV a year or more ago. Lockdowns, flatten the curve thing. Ours didn't go into lala-land of lockdowns and restrictions you have. But...it didn't help much. It did spread the time a bit.
With delta now, and likely more greeks coming out, vaccines don't do much in terms of spread. Looks like your politicians extended lockdown as cases rise. And cases will rise no matter what they do. You will see. Again for me it was like watching a local TV recorded a year or more ago. I think your government will likely extend lockdowns till Jan and then summer. They don't know that cats can contract and spread it too... but wait I'm giving away too much info...
A politician? Someone that tells you what you should have done and they would have done better?
Hmmm.... sounds familiar.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
The existence of occasional short-term side effects (which I've never denied) does not constitute the proof of long term side effects that I said we haven't seen.
Yes, it is impossible to have long term proof in the short term. I know that, and never denied it, and I specifically referred to "possible" dangers in the long term. That reference to "possible" dangers shows that any inference that I have ignored the possibility would be just dishonest. Nor did I ever deny that MRNA vaccines are novel. So are plenty of other medical techniques that people use, to their benefit.
Short term effects do not mean there are similar or related long term effects. It's well known that many vaccines have a small possibility of short term side effects like anaphylaxis. That's why the 15 minute wait that you didn't know about is standard practise after a shot. It's an example of the fact that the existence of a side effect in the short term does not mean that the side effect persists into the long term.
None of that gets away from the fact that some of us prefer to reduce a known current risk, even if there is some possibility of unknown long term risk. And some of us are prepared to take certain long-term risks, just as you appear to take the long-term risk of skin cancer when you go kiting.
So we're in agreeance then.
You like so many others are so **** scared, that you've taken an experimental treatment to sooth your minds short term, and your fear has seriously clouded your judgement of the long term risks of taking something so new that no-one can possibly know what the outcome of it would be.
How does it feel to live your life in fear that you are willing to grasp at any straw?
It must feel pretty good to have emotionally stunted people like lotofhotwind project their daddy issues onto you.
You're the one scared of the allegedly possible side-effects that you have not identified.
My judgement is based on assessment of the facts, including people I know who have suffered Covid and suffered the real effects - short term, mid term, and possibly long term. That's real effects that really happen - not some possible effect caused by an unidentified mechanism. I know I could catch Covid, I know that it could hit me particularly badly because of an old windsurfing injury that smashed my sinuses and makes me liable to infections there.
Of course I'm going to be logical and avoid a significant known risk. Of course I'm not going to run like a coward from a supposed boogeyman risk that probably doesn't even exist.
I notice you continually avoid the fact that YOU run known long term risks and accept them. You run an increased risk of fatal skin cancer when you go kitesurfing. Assuming you drink beer, you run an increased risk of illness in the long term every time you skull a glass. Every time you step in the water, you run a risk. So if you run those risks, why are you so terrified of a risk that may not even exist?
How does it feel to live your life in such fear that you are running scared of risks that (on the basis of available science) don't even exist and you can't even properly identify?
Select to expand quotejapie said..airsail said..
Raise you one
Ok Japie, if you are that sure of your claims then let's make a bet.
There's plenty of people here who know who I am and who can witness this. I will now bet you $10,000 that the governments will lift the lockdowns. Since you are so sure of your claims, I assume you'll give me 10 to 1 odds.
Come on, how about it? It's a simple bet - if the Australian governments don't lift the lockdowns I will pay you $10,000.
Surely you're going to put your money where your mouth is?
By the way, Japie, yesterday you were claiming that thousands of scientists were unwilling to speak out because they would lose their careers.
As the figures I posted yesterday show, thousands of scientists HAVE lost their jobs because of Covid. So why aren't the ones who are losing their jobs speaking out, if Covid is BS as you claim?
The country's top medical school, the one at U Syd, has sacked 27 full-time equivalent jobs. So if top medical scientists like that are getting sacked, how can you claim that all 10,000 plus medical scientists in Australia are staying quiet to save their jobs?
Come on, why are they staying silent? And why are you staying silent when you get asked questions like this?
Select to expand quotejapie said..airsail said..
Raise you one
Got you Japie, read what I posted carefully, shows how interested you are in others point of view
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Surely you're going to put your money where your mouth is?
Chris, I am not sure if you are aware of the etiquette required here.
Things are forecast. Often, usually, no specific date is mentioned.
Things don't happen.
People who said certain things were going to happen, sit there quietly or come up with a new thing that will happen and change the world.
I have it on good authority that the Global Reset is happening in October. When it doesn't happen I don't expect any mention of it at all and it will be wiped from their memory.
Remember, ultimately it comes down to 'they were in on it' or 'they were gotten to'.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..
I have it on good authority that the Global Reset is happening in October. When it doesn't happen I don't expect any mention of it at all and it will be wiped from their memory.
Any idea what date? My b'day is October, and it would be SUPER COOL to have a global reset birthday party.....
One thing that's interesting is that the people who keep on saying that Covid is being used by some parties to make fortunes don't mention that it's also COSTING huge interests vast sums. The giant oil companies like BP, Exxon and Shell are reporting annual losses of $20 BILLION US or so, instead of profits of about that much.
www.business-standard.com/article/international/hit-by-covid-19-pandemic-oil-giants-exxon-bp-post-huge-2020-losses-121020300184_1.html www.bbc.com/news/business-55931523
Australian insurers seem to be losing $10 Billion in business interruption insurance.
www.abc.net.au/news/2021-06-25/insurance-industry-covid-losses-high-court-ruling-business/100244772
Airlines are allegedly losing $48 billion US per annum, instead of making profits.
www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-21/airlines-see-2021-losses-ballooning-to-48-billion-amid-setbacks
Government revenues are down. Government payouts are up. The US governments are said to be losing about $190 billion a year. www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2020/09/24/how-much-is-covid-19-hurting-state-and-local-revenues/
So yes, some in the medical area are doing well, but far larger and more powerful forces are losing billions - and the execs are probably losing vast bonus payments. So if it's all a conspiracy to make money, why are the vast oil companies, the big insurers, the powerful airlines, the big cruise ship companies, the governments and all the other powers that are losing fortunes keeping so quiet?
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..Chris 249 said..
Surely you're going to put your money where your mouth is?
Chris, I am not sure if you are aware of the etiquette required here.
Things are forecast. Often, usually, no specific date is mentioned.
Things don't happen.
People who said certain things were going to happen, sit there quietly or come up with a new thing that will happen and change the world.
I have it on good authority that the Global Reset is happening in October. When it doesn't happen I don't expect any mention of it at all and it will be wiped from their memory.
Remember, ultimately it comes down to 'they were in on it' or 'they were gotten to'.
Yep, you're right, logic and facts don't matter here. I just wandered in because I was having a quiet day after my second jab yesterday.
I thought I may as well go out and find out what vast and dark forces have got control of me through the microchip inserted into my bloodstream. So far the only vast forces that's hit me is the flood in the creek pasture, and that's making the old training Laser I have down there blow around a bit.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..kiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
The existence of occasional short-term side effects (which I've never denied) does not constitute the proof of long term side effects that I said we haven't seen.
Yes, it is impossible to have long term proof in the short term. I know that, and never denied it, and I specifically referred to "possible" dangers in the long term. That reference to "possible" dangers shows that any inference that I have ignored the possibility would be just dishonest. Nor did I ever deny that MRNA vaccines are novel. So are plenty of other medical techniques that people use, to their benefit.
Short term effects do not mean there are similar or related long term effects. It's well known that many vaccines have a small possibility of short term side effects like anaphylaxis. That's why the 15 minute wait that you didn't know about is standard practise after a shot. It's an example of the fact that the existence of a side effect in the short term does not mean that the side effect persists into the long term.
None of that gets away from the fact that some of us prefer to reduce a known current risk, even if there is some possibility of unknown long term risk. And some of us are prepared to take certain long-term risks, just as you appear to take the long-term risk of skin cancer when you go kiting.
So we're in agreeance then.
You like so many others are so **** scared, that you've taken an experimental treatment to sooth your minds short term, and your fear has seriously clouded your judgement of the long term risks of taking something so new that no-one can possibly know what the outcome of it would be.
How does it feel to live your life in fear that you are willing to grasp at any straw?
It must feel pretty good to have emotionally stunted people like lotofhotwind project their daddy issues onto you.
You're the one scared of the allegedly possible side-effects that you have not identified.
My judgement is based on assessment of the facts, including people I know who have suffered Covid and suffered the real effects - short term, mid term, and possibly long term. That's real effects that really happen - not some possible effect caused by an unidentified mechanism. I know I could catch Covid, I know that it could hit me particularly badly because of an old windsurfing injury that smashed my sinuses and makes me liable to infections there.
Of course I'm going to be logical and avoid a significant known risk. Of course I'm not going to run like a coward from a supposed boogeyman risk that probably doesn't even exist.
I notice you continually avoid the fact that YOU run known long term risks and accept them. You run an increased risk of fatal skin cancer when you go kitesurfing. Assuming you drink beer, you run an increased risk of illness in the long term every time you skull a glass. Every time you step in the water, you run a risk. So if you run those risks, why are you so terrified of a risk that may not even exist?
How does it feel to live your life in such fear that you are running scared of risks that (on the basis of available science) don't even exist and you can't even properly identify?
Are you still squawking with your walls of text?
You just love comparing apples to oranges don't you.
On one hand you mention activities in which the risks are known and can be managed, on the other allowing yourself to be injected with a therapy that the risks are completely unknown, and hence can't be managed or weighed up on a risk/benefit analysis.
And you make this comparison as if they are the same thing.
You are deluded.
It is your fear that has made you leap into the unknown, to expose yourself to risks that even you admit are not known - not that they definitely don't exist, that they are unknown.
Yet you try to project that fear onto others, those that would prefer to wait an appropriate amount of time to then be able to make a proper risk/benefit analysis.
I love your disclaimer of 'on the basis of available science'. Did you know that 'available science' comes from in large part, thoroughly testing new drugs and therapies over a significant amount of time to account for long term effects? Obviously not.
Are you even aware that Pfizer have listed that their clinical trials won't be finished until 2023?
You are part of the clinical trials, guinea pig.
Good one brainiac.
#walloftext
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
...and the execs are probably losing vast bonus payments.
Oh fkn boo hoo.
Time to downgrade the lambo to the base model.
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Chris 249 said..kiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
The existence of occasional short-term side effects (which I've never denied) does not constitute the proof of long term side effects that I said we haven't seen.
Yes, it is impossible to have long term proof in the short term. I know that, and never denied it, and I specifically referred to "possible" dangers in the long term. That reference to "possible" dangers shows that any inference that I have ignored the possibility would be just dishonest. Nor did I ever deny that MRNA vaccines are novel. So are plenty of other medical techniques that people use, to their benefit.
Short term effects do not mean there are similar or related long term effects. It's well known that many vaccines have a small possibility of short term side effects like anaphylaxis. That's why the 15 minute wait that you didn't know about is standard practise after a shot. It's an example of the fact that the existence of a side effect in the short term does not mean that the side effect persists into the long term.
None of that gets away from the fact that some of us prefer to reduce a known current risk, even if there is some possibility of unknown long term risk. And some of us are prepared to take certain long-term risks, just as you appear to take the long-term risk of skin cancer when you go kiting.
So we're in agreeance then.
You like so many others are so **** scared, that you've taken an experimental treatment to sooth your minds short term, and your fear has seriously clouded your judgement of the long term risks of taking something so new that no-one can possibly know what the outcome of it would be.
How does it feel to live your life in fear that you are willing to grasp at any straw?
It must feel pretty good to have emotionally stunted people like lotofhotwind project their daddy issues onto you.
You're the one scared of the allegedly possible side-effects that you have not identified.
My judgement is based on assessment of the facts, including people I know who have suffered Covid and suffered the real effects - short term, mid term, and possibly long term. That's real effects that really happen - not some possible effect caused by an unidentified mechanism. I know I could catch Covid, I know that it could hit me particularly badly because of an old windsurfing injury that smashed my sinuses and makes me liable to infections there.
Of course I'm going to be logical and avoid a significant known risk. Of course I'm not going to run like a coward from a supposed boogeyman risk that probably doesn't even exist.
I notice you continually avoid the fact that YOU run known long term risks and accept them. You run an increased risk of fatal skin cancer when you go kitesurfing. Assuming you drink beer, you run an increased risk of illness in the long term every time you skull a glass. Every time you step in the water, you run a risk. So if you run those risks, why are you so terrified of a risk that may not even exist?
How does it feel to live your life in such fear that you are running scared of risks that (on the basis of available science) don't even exist and you can't even properly identify?
Are you still squawking with your walls of text?
Good one brainiac.
#walloftext
Yeah Chris. I want MY answer, not your explanation of things using words. Words! What use are they?
I want my opinion reinforced for me and in no way am I expecting to have my arguments logically refuted. Please refrain from doing this!
In summary, so that you don't mix it up again:
1. Examining my logic and presenting arguments for it using easy to understand logic:
= Too much text, I am not able to cope.
2. Logic that disagrees with what I say:
= Rubbish and no discussion will be entered into.
3. Logic for which I have no understanding:
= Following the official narrative.
4. Anything else:
= You are a 'tard and you keep on telling me stuff I don't like.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..kiterboy said..Chris 249 said..kiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
The existence of occasional short-term side effects (which I've never denied) does not constitute the proof of long term side effects that I said we haven't seen.
Yes, it is impossible to have long term proof in the short term. I know that, and never denied it, and I specifically referred to "possible" dangers in the long term. That reference to "possible" dangers shows that any inference that I have ignored the possibility would be just dishonest. Nor did I ever deny that MRNA vaccines are novel. So are plenty of other medical techniques that people use, to their benefit.
Short term effects do not mean there are similar or related long term effects. It's well known that many vaccines have a small possibility of short term side effects like anaphylaxis. That's why the 15 minute wait that you didn't know about is standard practise after a shot. It's an example of the fact that the existence of a side effect in the short term does not mean that the side effect persists into the long term.
None of that gets away from the fact that some of us prefer to reduce a known current risk, even if there is some possibility of unknown long term risk. And some of us are prepared to take certain long-term risks, just as you appear to take the long-term risk of skin cancer when you go kiting.
So we're in agreeance then.
You like so many others are so **** scared, that you've taken an experimental treatment to sooth your minds short term, and your fear has seriously clouded your judgement of the long term risks of taking something so new that no-one can possibly know what the outcome of it would be.
How does it feel to live your life in fear that you are willing to grasp at any straw?
It must feel pretty good to have emotionally stunted people like lotofhotwind project their daddy issues onto you.
You're the one scared of the allegedly possible side-effects that you have not identified.
My judgement is based on assessment of the facts, including people I know who have suffered Covid and suffered the real effects - short term, mid term, and possibly long term. That's real effects that really happen - not some possible effect caused by an unidentified mechanism. I know I could catch Covid, I know that it could hit me particularly badly because of an old windsurfing injury that smashed my sinuses and makes me liable to infections there.
Of course I'm going to be logical and avoid a significant known risk. Of course I'm not going to run like a coward from a supposed boogeyman risk that probably doesn't even exist.
I notice you continually avoid the fact that YOU run known long term risks and accept them. You run an increased risk of fatal skin cancer when you go kitesurfing. Assuming you drink beer, you run an increased risk of illness in the long term every time you skull a glass. Every time you step in the water, you run a risk. So if you run those risks, why are you so terrified of a risk that may not even exist?
How does it feel to live your life in such fear that you are running scared of risks that (on the basis of available science) don't even exist and you can't even properly identify?
Are you still squawking with your walls of text?
Good one brainiac.
#walloftext
Yeah Chris. I want MY answer, not your explanation of things using words. Words! What use are they?
I want my opinion reinforced for me and in no way am I expecting to have my arguments logically refuted. Please refrain from doing this!
In summary, so that you don't mix it up again:
1. Examining my logic and presenting arguments for it using easy to understand logic:
= Too much text, I am not able to cope.
2. Logic that disagrees with what I say:
= Rubbish and no discussion will be entered into.
3. Logic for which I have no understanding:
= Following the official narrative.
4. Anything else:
= You are a 'tard and you keep on telling me stuff I don't like.
Ah yes, logic.
Like - you go in the sun, so you should accept an injection that hasn't been tested over a long enough time to know if it'll mess you up long term.
Good logic.
Kiter, the fact that one risk can be managed does not mean that it is less dangerous than one alleged risk that may not even exist. Every day we face risks, known and unknown. Accepting that there MAY be long-term risks to alleviate known short-term risks is not dumb, even if it seems to terrify you.
I didn't come here and criticise those who aren't getting a jab. I made some specific points, without throwing insults at you. You then started making lame, childish insults because that's all you can do.
I have no idea why you thought I was sympathetic for oil company executives and their ilk. The point is that the other people who are claiming that Covid is a scam by some big businesses have not explained why even bigger businesses, with their vast budgets and powers, have not avoided their vast losses by exposing the "scam"; just like they have not explained why the thousands of medical scientists who are losing jobs because of Covid are apparently silenced by companies that didn't pay them for the jobs they no longer have.
Sorry if you struggle with reading and get intimidated by "walls of text". Anyway, enough of this, I'm off, you stay scared by your imaginary perils.
It won't be long before the critical mass is vaccinated and the powers that be won't be able to keep the population on standby, then the unvaccinated that are backing their own immune system will have to put it to the test. Good luck everyone
Your on the money woko, NSW isn't going back to Covid zero, it's spreading, the unvaxed plans to combat the virus are about to be tested.
FDA has now approved Pfizer, no longer an experimental vaccine, or is the FDA in big Phama's pockets too?
Select to expand quoteairsail said..
Your on the money woko, NSW isn't going back to Covid zero, it's spreading, the unvaxed plans to combat the virus are about to be tested.
FDA has now approved Pfizer, no longer an experimental vaccine, or is the FDA in big Phama's pockets too?
The FDA is just a mouthpiece for big pharma.
Big pharma is working hand in hand with the Chinese government to control us all
Select to expand quoteleto said..
I'm in NY. However, out of curiosity I watched the Ozz TV yesterday to see what's going on and things I heard sounded like dejavu. You guys know things better since you are there but.. It was like watching local TV a year or more ago. Lockdowns, flatten the curve thing. Ours didn't go into lala-land of lockdowns and restrictions you have. But...it didn't help much. It did spread the time a bit.
With delta now, and likely more greeks coming out, vaccines don't do much in terms of spread. Looks like your politicians extended lockdown as cases rise. And cases will rise no matter what they do. You will see. Again for me it was like watching a local TV recorded a year or more ago. I think your government will likely extend lockdowns till Jan and then summer. They don't know that cats can contract and spread it too... but wait I'm giving away too much info...
2 months ago we had less than 200 cases active across the country and we'd only just started getting more than 20 new cases a day.
Getting back to Covid zero by lockdowns was feasible. Lockdowns had worked in the majority of other States, even with Delta.
Unfortunately it has now got out into our poorly vaccinated and very poorly health system supported regional areas. So things will go badly there.
The national plan to start opening up the country and get away from lockdowns was predicated on having very low numbers of Covid and high numbers of vaccinated.
Unfortunately we're going to be asymmetricaly vaccinated and plenty of at risk people will be put in harms way if we just let the virus do it's own thing now.
But the aim now is not to try shut the stall door after horse has bolted, but come up with an approach to still protect our vulnerable while getting back to normal. WA might be a problem there.
FDA has now approved Pfizer, no longer an experimental vaccine...... that big Pharma has complete indemnity from short or long term effects. So sounds experimental to me whether FDA approves or not.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
Kiter, the fact that one risk can be managed does not mean that it is less dangerous than one alleged risk that may not even exist. Every day we face risks, known and unknown. Accepting that there MAY be long-term risks to alleviate known short-term risks is not dumb, even if it seems to terrify you.
I didn't come here and criticise those who aren't getting a jab. I made some specific points, without throwing insults at you. You then started making lame, childish insults because that's all you can do.
I have no idea why you thought I was sympathetic for oil company executives and their ilk. The point is that the other people who are claiming that Covid is a scam by some big businesses have not explained why even bigger businesses, with their vast budgets and powers, have not avoided their vast losses by exposing the "scam"; just like they have not explained why the thousands of medical scientists who are losing jobs because of Covid are apparently silenced by companies that didn't pay them for the jobs they no longer have.
Sorry if you struggle with reading and get intimidated by "walls of text". Anyway, enough of this, I'm off, you stay scared by your imaginary perils.
If I was scared I would have gotten the 'vaccine', like you.
Select to expand quoteeppo said..
FDA has now approved Pfizer, no longer an experimental vaccine...... that big Pharma has complete indemnity from short or long term effects. So sounds experimental to me whether FDA approves or not.
Indeed and there seems to be a bot of double-speak going on...
Does anyone else read this as there being two 'vaccines' the one just approved with a licensed name, Comirnaty, and the one approved under the EUA, but both are exactly the same?
So you've got two vaccines, both made exactly the same way, yet one is licensed and one is for emergency use, the only difference is the name. Both made by Pfizer-Biontech.
www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-biologics/qa-comirnaty-covid-19-vaccine-mrna
How is Comirnaty (COVID-19 VACCINE, mRNA) related to the PFIZER-BIONTECH COVID-19 VACCINE?The FDA-approved Pfizer-BioNTech product Comirnaty (COVID-19 Vaccine, mRNA) and the FDA-authorized Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine under EUA have the same formulation and can be used interchangeably to provide the COVID-19 vaccination series without presenting any safety or effectiveness concerns. Therefore, providers can use doses distributed under EUA to administer the vaccination series as if the doses were the licensed vaccine. For purposes of administration, doses distributed under the EUA are interchangeable with the licensed doses. The Vaccine Information Fact Sheet for Recipients and Caregivers provides additional information about both the approved and authorized vaccine.
If we're making decisions based on professional advice, then we can listen to Dr. Bhatt from Imperial college, who's an arrogant judgemental egotistical jerk. Or we can listen to Prof. Ioannidis from Stanford, who's a polite genuine considered man.
Both top of their field
Select to expand quotekiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
Sorry if you struggle with reading and get intimidated by "walls of text". Anyway, enough of this, I'm off, you stay scared by your imaginary perils.
If I was scared I would have gotten the 'vaccine', like you.
It is normal for people to be scared of the risk. Why are you acting like it is not a reason now? Its a perfectly normal human reason.
I am scared of catching Covid, and scared of what happens to society if lots of people do.
You seem to be scared of the risk of the vaccine and not scared by catching Covid or what happens to society.
We are lucky where Covid does not seem to be an issue for too many people in Aus at the moment, so the fear is not as strong as it might otherwise be.
Select to expand quoteFormulaNova said..kiterboy said..Chris 249 said..
Sorry if you struggle with reading and get intimidated by "walls of text". Anyway, enough of this, I'm off, you stay scared by your imaginary perils.
If I was scared I would have gotten the 'vaccine', like you.
It is normal for people to be scared of the risk. Why are you acting like it is not a reason now? Its a perfectly normal human reason.
I am scared of catching Covid, and scared of what happens to society if lots of people do.
You seem to be scared of the risk of the vaccine and not scared by catching Covid or what happens to society.
We are lucky where Covid does not seem to be an issue for too many people in Aus at the moment, so the fear is not as strong as it might otherwise be.
I am concerned about both.
I neither want to catch SARS-Cov-2 or accept an experimental treatment, yet.
So I am managing my risk for both.
I refuse to let fear rule my life.
