like the ones that hop away just to die somewhere else?? Are you going to stop driving your car to kill it? No I didnt think so
A few years ago when I was in Switzerland I saw in a documentary aussies shooting roos for fun and leave them wounded to rot in the desert. But that's ok I guess. The excuse was 'they are a pest'.
The argument of shooting in the head, one shot instant kill is simple bull. I served in the army and we had pretty hi-tech guns and hitting a moving target where you aim at requires a lot of skill and it's not as simple as playing a video game - as pathetically suggested by someone here - frigging hell kids get away from your PS.
Docus like the one from ABC are fantastic in raising awareness to animal cruelty or any sort of unacceptable behaviour and people should take proactive actions against it. However, as soon as we get the choice of buying cheap supermarket meet or have to pay extra to get organically and naturally fed meet at the butcher who gets it from a local farmer - well, you know the answer to that one. And the same applies to eggs, fish and any sort of food.
Whinging on a forum about animal cruelty then later swing by at the mac'rs reflects our wester self-indulgent society. Seriously, how many of you went to a fast food burger place in the last few days and there are probably a ton of justifications to do so. Nonetheless, this is directly supporting animal slaughter and cruelty and if you believe our abattoirs are much better than talk to some workers and try to find out what the animals go through and how many die on the transport. As they say 'seeing is believing' but I guess as long as we don't see it, it doesn't happen.
I hope our government will do something that will permanently stop live exports but in the meantime every one of you can do something to reduce animal cruelty. Reduce your meet consumption and when you buy meet find out where it's from – or even better become a vegetarian. Rant over.
like the ones that hop away just to die somewhere else?? Are you going to stop driving your car to kill it? No I didnt think so
The argument of shooting in the head, one shot instant kill is simple bull. I served in the army and we had pretty hi-tech guns and hitting a moving target where you aim at requires a lot of skill and it's not as simple as playing a video game - as pathetically suggested by someone here - frigging hell kids get away from your PS.
I wasnt talking about a moving target I said a responsible shooter wouldnt take moving head shots.
And its meat not meet
I agree with jev, by the way during snipper's training we were told not to aim for head shots as they are too uncertain, always hit at the upper body (bigger target) and a wounded soldier will distract more personnel on the ground to evac than a dead body.
I am just saying that in this day and age there isnt much skill in this type of hunting
Who said anything about eating foxes, cats or even feral pigs (full of nasties those things). My main meat consumption is roo, and I take a few rabbits home now and then. As for who decides which ones are pests and which aren't - are you blokes kidding me? That nonsense doesn't deserve an answer. I guess most respondents to this thread are conservationists at heart - I am! I want to see the defenseless native marsupials, reptiles and birds conserved - most hunters are the same.
Military, and particularly sniping, are entirely different from hunting. I spent 9 years in the permanent armed forces. I know a thing or 2 too. We were taught to wound, not kill, for the same reason. As a hunter my shooting skills have had to improve many time over my military skills, as a head-shot kill is the only acceptable outcome (especially if one wants to eat the meat). As an aside, I mostly carry my 243, so for foxes, cats, rabbits etc almost any hit is an instant kill. I usually go out to hunt larger animals, so the small vermin are incidental to the exercise. If I want rabbits to eat I use my 17. Military rifles are vastly different from sporting rifles. You're not allowed, as a rule, to privately own modern military weapons in Oz.
As doggie said, whoever thinks an animal just stands there while you shoot it hasn't done it. You typically get about a 2 second window - sometimes more, sometimes less, but you don't know that till it's over. Cats are very hard to find and are very skittish - very hard to hunt and kill, and it's not common to get closer than about 150 - 200 yards from a fox. Pigs wait for no-one, and if you do just wound one you'd better be able to run and/or climb - yes the hunter does become the hunted Pigs are the primary reason why I chose a 243 over a 223.
>5000 foxes. Every year in sou' western WA there is a large combined fox (and cats if you see them) hunt. I'm trying to think what they call it ... Farmers and hunters from all over the sou' west have one big drive to exterminate as many as possible.
Any'ow, chew the bones out of that lot. I still hate cruelty to any animals.
but would not just for fun.
I am just saying that in this day and age there isnt much skill in this type of hunting
but would not just for fun.
I still have my trusty army issued schmidt & ruebin 7.65 hornet and would do a still head shot a 400m without scope. I would imagine that would be a good pig rifle. mind you that bullet is very fast and has great penetration ability but I am not sure of the stopping factor, as dins said war time shooting is aimed at wounding an that sort of calibre would get the bullet go across the body no doubt.
After growing up on a farm & seeing what a fox does to small animals, indigenous & introduced (lambs/calves etc.), I have no issue squeezing the trigger when one is in my sights! Farmers have their investment to protect, and shooting is a form of protecting that investment, for those hunters that don't have farms, I'd expect they would have permission by the property owners. I don't know any hunter or farmer that takes joy from causing pain or distress to any animal (but that could just be my circle of friends/family).
My brother-in-law regurlarly takes his 3 boys shooting, and I went with them a couple of months ago. They shot (and retrieved) 3 foxes & about 20 rabbits (due to the near plague of them this year). I was pleasantly surprised to watch as his youngest waited for a wallaby to move out of his line of sight before shooting a rabbit.
They used to let other shooters on their property, but after asking a group one night to leave a family of emus alone, and sighting the slaughter the next morning, they've banned outsiders from their farm & the guys that did the shooting found themselves in an awkward spot when they turned up next time.
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In WA you must have a minimum of 2 signed letters of consent from landholders (farmers) to get your gun licence in the first place. If you have nowhere to shoot you have have no need for a gun.
Not quite 1 letter is ok providing the property in question is big enough. Smaller properties allow for shotguns and .22 and larger properties allows big bore bolt action rifles, primary producer are allowed self loading semi auto rifles.
License can be obtained for club activities as well and it is very easy to get a collector license. All fire arms are to be kept in an approved safe.
This topic appears to have swung around a little! I have always been interested in Ecology and the lack of knowledge here, compared to Africa, always leaves me somewhat dismayed.
There is reason for the comparative ignorance. African animals are so in your face. The reason for the strength of the conservation movement there is that it began over a century ago when people began to appreciate that if they kept killing at their current rate they would soon have bugger all left.
Unfortunately Australian animals have never really been valued as they are somewhat nondescript and not much valued as sport.
Which leads us to where we are now, a country swarming with feral animals and not a hope in Hades of correcting the situation. Firearms confiscated, bottom out of the fox pelt trade.
Bring in a Bounty system and let us all wear the Fox Hat and kitty coats!
tread strayed a little, onto how australians treat our animals, which is still on the subject kinda.. Can we oppose Halal while we still eat meat?. And is hunting for fun showing our 'animal killing complex' is almost as strong as that in the islamic world?..
We can oppose Halal, there is little justice in our meat industry, but at least at the end of the line we offer the poor beasts a quick death..
It's ironic that hunters are seen as the answer to foxes, rabbits and pigs... If it weren't for hunters, those animals wouldn't even be in Australia.. Hunters introduce feral pigs into regions without pigs just so they can shoot them..
Shooting a single fox is not saving the environment, its just being a jerk to an animal.
I used to have a local fox when I lived in a fishing shack in freshwater point, best animals ever.. They have 100 times the charm of any surviving native animal.. I used to turn the floodlights on and it would catch moths in the light.. Organised culling may be necessary, but your a twat if you enjoy it.
^^ I would have no problem in blowing that foxes head off Barn. I wouldnt even think about it!
Hey Doggie
I dont get all the built up anger towards foxes ( released here by hunters for sport) if your a landowner or farmer then I guess you could have a right to despise them, they are just doing what they have done for thousands of years same as dingos. The impact foxes have had on the environment wouldn't even remotely compare to what man has destroyed in 200 years. What chance have even our native wildlife got when fwit national parks rangers on Fraser go on a killing spree everytime some parent doesn't keep their eye on their kids yes I acknowledge this is a bit of a rant
cheers Boof
Wow! The beef managed to hold our attention for all of about 50% of the thread - 2 out of 4 pages (so far). Sounds like they're a goner.
Back to the non-shooting topic...
My brother worked in an Abattoir and really felt that what is happening in Indo is not far off what they had performed in Australia. The Jewish Kosher killing was very similar in his experience, in his words "for kosher kill, the cattle were restrained uncomfortably and their heads wrenched back in a vice thing, their throats cut by the Jewish 'slaughterman' and then afterward, the Aussie gives the animal the bolt gun to finish it". We shouldn't be crying about the export markets or the indo government but the religious leaders who permit this.
My opinion is that is unarguable unacceptable. But it is easy to sit in our rich houses and complain about poorly paid and poorly trained indo guys. If we stop exporting to them it wont stop the killing, but continuing the trade we continue to have influence on their market. If we stop the exports then we have zero power to make change.
My rant is complete.
